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December 17 at 8:15am

I Am No Longer Going To Produce Films For My Living

By Ted Hope

Sketch by Richard Ellis

Sketch by Richard Ellis

Note: If you’d like to share this post, please use this shortened link: http://bit.ly/JChOgz

I have decided I am no longer going to produce films for my living.  To do so requires me to deliver quantity over quality. Or to not contribute as fully as I like since I won’t be fairly compensated.  Or to make something that is virtually guaranteed to not have the cultural impact it warrants.  Those are three things that I am refusing to be part of.

When I resigned recently from running the San Francisco Film Society, I said I was going to produce films (among other things).  But that is not what was driving me to resign. I would love to make one film a year, even two, but to depend on my livelihood to do so requires I work on about 25 films a year (developing, packaging, and financing), and all generally without any remuneration until the film gets made.  The infrastructure for producing films of quality does not exist — even if you have done it across 70 films or so in the last 25 years.  

Sure many folks are doing it, but when I look at what it takes doing things I no longer can tolerate.  Don’t get me wrong, I admire all the indie producers I know. They impress me. Maybe they have more faith than me.  I look at the way it works though, and I think it is antithetical to quality production.  I don’t want to just get it made.  I don’t want to even be tempted to work that way.  I want the goal always to be the best film.  And to pursue the best film means I won’t be able to earn a living producing films because it means I can not guarantee that I will produce two movies a year (and if you are working in NYC or LA — which you have to to produce at that level — you have to produce 2 movies a year to survive).

Producing two movies a year these days requires too many sacrifices. It requires accepting whom a financier wants, be it a director, an actor, or collaborator.  It requires rushing development and selecting projects that can get made quickly.  If you want to survive as a producer, when you get to do something for the money, you have to do it.  It requires continual “fake meetings” in an effort to sleuth out every opportunity. It means facilitating alliances that I may have little respect for. It requires compromises that I am no longer willing to make.

What I think I do best (develop and edit) is the part I never get funded for. What I value most amongst my skill set, the industry expects me to give away for free. I may work several years on a script with a writer and/or director, getting it to a place that it can attract cast and financing. These days generally then a financier comes aboard and expects both an equal credit and fee to me or any developing producer.  The funding producer knows that the lions’ share of the work ahead will still be done by the developing producer, but still expects equal compensation. There is no special credit in the US for those that develop material.

Most films that producers develop never get made.  That hasn’t been true in my career, but it is true overall.  As there are very few support mechanisms for producers during development, we are encouraged either to do little development or attach ourselves to projects that can quickly get made.  The current ecosystem is not structured in a way that work gets better.  The current infrastructure encourages concepts over depth.  It is not a process that I want to encourage or participate in.  Until I see it can change, I will seek to earn my living doing other things than just producing movies.

With the collapse of producer overhead deals, no producer (other than those that have accumulated or been provided with wealth) is permitted to pursue quality.  Those overhead deals meant a great deal to us.  The industry no longer truly values the well done or well told. If a film can not appeal to the widest markets you can now expect to not be fairly compensated.  As a result, I am going to produce now exclusively for my passion — and thus be able to say no when I do not agree with what is asked of me.

Don’t get me wrong.  I will produce movies.  And hopefully a good number of them.  Will I be able to do 70 over the next 25 years as I did for those 25 years that have now passed?  Certainly not. This past year running the San Francisco Film Society cured me of my addiction.  I have gone cold turkey and fled the treadmill.  Yes, I was addicted to producing #IndieFilms. When I was living in NYC, I could not resist.  I wanted to read your script.  I wanted to take that meeting.  I wanted to team up.  Sorry, but fuck that.  It is a waste of time and only feeds our Bizarro World.  I don’t want to be part of it.  

I want to make films that lift the world and our culture higher — and our current way of doing things does just the opposite.  

I’m done.  At least with the way it is now.


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  • lauralee

    Genuinely curious, not being sarcastic or anything, I’d just really love to know: have you managed to do 120% ROI? I ask mainly because I’d love to hear some good news here.

  • John Chi

    That’s actually the pink elephant in the room isn’t it? The creation of more films that deserve to be seen/distributed/compensated for? Technology has empowered the individual to make movies that resemble mainstream products, at much more affordable budgets than ever before. But hasn’t that also led to the devaluation of indie films in general? Supply has far surpassed (mainstream) demand for this kind of product. So these films shouldn’t expect to find mainstream/corporate acceptance/sponsorship. The Good Machine, will need to be born from within, not externally. Like VCs in the start up world, but instead of exponential monetary growth as the driving motivation, it will need to be something more altruistic. Mr. George Lucas has got some time and money on his hands now. I bet the two of you would have some really interesting thoughts about building the Good Machine. Anyways, enjoy your “retirement” and look forward to when you come out of it.

  • Pierre Lapointe

    Ted, I have the utmost respect for your decision and can only hope that someday, somehow those of us whose long and undying passion for an art form we so dearly love will emerge from its current turmoil and provide us the ability to bring exhilarating projects to life and make a living wage.

    I firmly believe that we are about to embark on a great creative and cultural wave that will embrace content that is real, honest and passionate. I think about the explosion of incredible American films from the late sixties and early seventies and the raw emotional power they packed and how our modern audience tired of fantasy, science fiction and superheroes will seek out and welcome more earthy, human and fulfilling fare.

    That is what I see in my crystal ball. And my wish is to share that journey with talented and meaningful people like yourself.

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    I look forward to that Pierre. I do think it is a fantastic time to be a creative person. But instead of asking how do we have a “career” in the film biz (or music, or art, or publishing, or journalism), we have to ask ourselves “how can I have a generative creative LIFE”. I do wish I could earn a living doing what I love, but I think earning a living pursuing what I love, leads to the opposite result.

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    The only work-for-hire I did was either at the start of my career or work I did not take credit on. I also think the model for film investment is broken, but I have been writing about that for awhile and know it is solvable. Please look at any of my “Towards A Sustainable Investor Class” posts.

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    The last time we modeled out all of our movies, I had only made about 65 films then. At that point we were looking to raise a big fund. We were able to demonstrate a 123% ROI at that time, which was better than almost anyone else working. The terms that were asked in the raise by most investors were also too horrible for me to accept (50% deferred on fees until all films 120% recouped, high interest, low distro fees, etc.). It was a time that several folks raised significant $ but the deal destroyed their company and the work.

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    12 YEARS is one of those extremely rare films that actually advances the cinematic language. The fact that it also changes the culture and shows all what is possible and the absolute necessity to find and support new and diverse voices only adds to that. There is no comparison between the two.

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    Thanks for that great quote. I will definitely share it!

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    Ha! That’ so funny. You know what fully happened? I tried so hard to get on S&N. Sent in resumes 5 times. Showed up twice before. I ended up showing up at the office at 8A with two coffees on hand and made it look like I was there to work. Jumped in and emptied the trash & ashtrays, reloaded the copier, whatever was possible. At the end of the day after working up a storm, you and Jim asked me if there was anything you could do for me, and I said yes, let me talk to the production manager so I could get hired. You guys said no — that wasn’t necessary because you were hiring me. That film was my big break because previously all my credits were films like “Return To Hell High 2″!

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    It is truly exciting that for the first time in the business we can truly build audiences, engage directly, sell, market, and engage directly with audiences. Things can change.

  • tru

    Oh dear god no, I wasn’t being polemic. I truly wanted to know what made you click. What kind of movies are you considering uplifting. Do they need to be elevated as “12 years” or can they just be as good as the “Marigold hotel” That’s all.

  • Susie Moloney

    I’ve seen nearly every film you’ve produced. This is very sad news for the industry. I recently decided myself to stop publishing (I’m a novelist). It used to be a way to make a living and is no longer. It’s disheartening to hear that film is going the same way. Good luck with your new endeavours. If you’re making movies in the future, there’s a good chance I’ll be seeing them.

  • Russell Blanchard

    Ted, Reading this article summed up the feelings I have had since leaving film school in 2008. Trying to find this balance has been very difficult as the scale normally tilts one way or the other, each holding their own perils. As someone in the early stages of their career I would love to discuss how we could possibly help each other moving forward. Have any trash that needs emptying? Will you be at Sundance 2014? I would love a follow @russelljoseph so I can send you a DM with my email.

  • Ekim Namwen

    Really? What’s the last fictional film that caused a social movement, changed a law, or inspired people to change their ways? There is not one single fictional film that has changed society. Check mate.

    Of course ego is involved in docs, but at least there’s the capability to get at some sort of truth or to start a conversation.

  • Ekim Namwen

    How many social movements or changes to society were inspired by those films you mention? None. That’s my point.

    In the real world most people go to movies as a way to pass time. I know that people in the elitist creative circles in places like NYC and SF think differently, but those people live in myopic bubbles.

    Of course those films move people, but they don’t inspire action. At least docs have the ability to get people to take action. Look at Blackfish and the impact it has had. Name one fictional film that can say the same. You can’t.

    I define value based on results. I can list numerous docs that have caused some kind of tangible change. The only films I can think of that have come remotely close to the power of docs is The Matrix and Fight Club. Those are meaningful films, but they still didn’t do much to get people to change their idiotic consumeristic ways.

  • Michelle Ngo

    If you haven’t seen it when it aired on HBO, check out “Seduced & Abandoned.” It revolves around that quote as Alec Baldwin swims the strange waters of Cannes trying to raise funds for a film. A funny illustration which I am sure you have first hand knowledge with the Cannes experience.

  • Kate Marks

    Thanks for this wonderful post. You validated the path of day jobs! I studied playwriting with Chuck Mee and he gave us some great advice.
    “You will never make a living as a playwright, so don’t even try.” This
    sounds discouraging but it is actually freeing. When you don’t rely on
    your art to be the bread-winner you make better art. You take risks, you
    go deep, and nobody has the power to tell you no. On top of that,
    sometimes the jobs you take in order to survive turn out to be priceless
    “research” for your writing.
    That’s not to say balancing five jobs
    and making films does not come with sacrifices, it’s just that artistic
    integrity isn’t one of them.

  • Michelle Ngo

    My one comment is paltry compared to all your great ideas and advocacy you share on this blog. Aside from your filmography, you’ve planted a lot of seeds on this blog, so will be interesting to see what takes root over time. Happy holidays and here’s to a great new 2014 for you.

  • Julie Glantz

    Actually, despite our brief efforts to work together after S&N (when you first found that new writer you were so excited about: HH), our paths diverged, so we’ve never had the occasion to compare notes…until now. My experience of coming to S&N was much like yours. But, I was dabbling in freelance design and production jobs. I didn’t know jack about feature films except that I loved movies. And I knew New York. I met Jim through my brother and he would frequently call me for all kinds of info. Suddenly, the calls were coming fast and furious, during an especially dry spell for me. I said “You must be on a big job, and I need one.” Jim said, “I can’t hire. Its up to the PM.” We set up an interview. I was offered something absurd. I told them I preferred the original arrangement and jokingly suggested a hybrid: I could stay home and answer their questions, we could limit the time and come up with compensation for my knowledge and resources. I came home, rejected, dejected, but hey, their loss. Several weeks later, I got an early morning call: when can you be here? The rest was history. I went on to work with Alex and then Rudy and Robert for the next almost 10 years. It was fun, exciting, and exhilarating. Also eye-opening and heartbreaking. I got the picture early on when I was trying to develop some projects that the expectation was that I would need to suck up to anyone who might have a purse, but there would be strings, the script would get hacked to pieces, the director and the producers who developed the ideas wouldn’t see their vision fully realized without losing a piece of their souls (forget about seeing any real compensation), that investors would want more than their share of the pie and they would also, quite often, not stick around to see it through, leaving you back at the bottom of the mountain with the Sisyphean task of having to roll the boulder back up again. I got on with the business of living, kept my love of film intact, opted for a life of travel, adventure, lots of different kinds of jobs, ultimately finding my way to working with public schools and kids, hoping to support the future generations of artists and creative thinkers in the belief that the much needed transformation in the world’s understanding of the importance of the creative class will come from them. We can only hope. All good things must come to an end… to make way for the next good things!

  • Amy Bartley

    Ted, this is a fantastic article. My sentiments exactly. I am a screenwriter and have spent many many years in all aspects of theater production. I, too, have been frustrated with much of the politics of the business and have started my own production company called Queen B. Productions. Our tag line is “A Company by the Artists, For the Artists”. It is structured under the same idea of how a bee hive is run, where EVERYONE is a crucial and important component for the health of the hive and the bees. We will produce only films and theater that is thought provoking, artistic, well planned and executed. We work with talented, passionate, professional artists, who do their jobs out of love for the project, not for top billing, the most money accessible or other “diva” motivations. I believe there are many artists out there, known and unknown, who would love to take part in a venture such as this. I believe this has the potential to make a great impact. It may not change Hollywood, but it will change the way things can work. I wish to give all those who join us the key to their happiness by being able to work at their passion on a daily basis. As we succeed, we will partner up with various charities across the world to make a true global impact. I would love to elaborate more on this and share ideas with you. If you are interested, feel free to contact me at amy@queenbproductionshive.com. I wish you so much luck in the future, finding your happiness and fulfillment. Thanks for sharing and know there are many of us out there who support you.

  • IndieProducerSecrets

    What you say resonates for many, me included- and is an arrow to the target centre as many of your observations are. I only make for my passion, but what a price is paid for that now. Trouble is we all find it difficult to give it up, because if you are good at what you do it is frustrating to blocked from fulfilling your potential. Good luck with what you do make. I can’t imagine you won’t. I also think that something new and surprising will emerge out of the mess- eventually. What an optimist!

  • lauralee

    Funny how your reply makes me feel both happy and sad again.

  • jrose

    “Check mate”? Seriously? What arrogance. Who is this guy?

    For those who seek an actual answer to this question:

    - Kieslowski’s 1988 fictional feature “A Short Film About Killing” was instrumental in abolishing the death penalty in Poland.

    - The Dardenne bros.’ 1999 fictional feature “Rosetta” inspired laws in Belgium preventing employers from paying teenage workers less than minimum wage. Other protections for working teens were enacted.

    - Mizoguchi’s 1956 fictional feature “Street of Shame” inspired anti-prostitution laws in Japan.

    - Mervyn LeRoy’s 1932 fictional feature “I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang” led to the release of several American prisoners who were depicted in the film, and the eventual abolishment of prison chain gangs.

    - Rachid Bouchareb’s 2006 fictional feature “Days of Glory” led to French laws enforcing war pensions to finally be paid to non-French veterans who fought for France (e.g., Algerians).

    And those are just the fictional films that brought about official government policy change.

    Certainly, many fictional films have brought about a positive change in society at large: “Norma Rae” invigorated the union movement; “Blood Diamond” was key in a reduction of purchases of conflict diamonds; “Syriana” inspired thousands of Americans to write their Congresspeople and demand a reduction in the dependence on foreign oil; “Philadelphia” increased tolerance of gays and AIDS victims in the early ’90s; “Babe” likely inspired thousands of young moviegoers worldwide to become vegetarians.

    So there’s 10 films for you. Now go check mate yourself.

  • Thunder Levin

    Ted, I’ve been trying to work with you since we were both in school. Somehow that’s never happened. Maybe building a new film business (where the business supports the story and not the other way around) is where it could finally happen? After all, if Sharknado could take over the world, literally ANYTHING is possible!

  • Mark Ashmore

    Tools like distrify and social ticketing like fatsoma and of course crowd sourcing your theatrical via tugg and the importance of community managers working with producers from get go and the idea stage, the business model has evolved- im sure ted, now freeing himself from the old system can allow us his fans to help fund his passion project – i for one will stick $500 in the kickstarter for a credit – lets do it – ted pitch us your passion project!

  • clive frayne

    I am genuinely excited for you. There’s a lot to be said for making the films you genuinely believe in, regardless of whether they’ll put food on the table or not.

  • Poly Wood

    Hi Ted. I have an original good quality small budget feature, and a good quality big budget epic that you may be interested in producing? Both have the potential to refresh and re-inspire you back into doing what you do so well!

  • lbyrd14

    Thanks for this post. As someone who has spent four years in the industry doing something she wasn’t so crazy about, but was well-paid, I finally made the leap in March to leave that line of work and not look back. I, too, want to make films that lift our culture higher and which have a social message and impact. I’ve started working on some documentary projects in the past couple months, but I’m running into the art v. commerce problem again as well. I love the work I’m doing, but I’m realizing how difficult it’s going to be to make a living at it.

  • Joseph F. Alexandre

    Hmm, that paradigm seems to be the way most Indie film makers have been working for quite sometime now. I doubt anyone from Cassavetes to Larry Fessendon got much in the way of overhead deals. They certainly never had John Wells Productions to cover their overhead like Killer Films.

    Still, I agree w what was written but sort of “welcome to how the other half lives…”

  • Foster Corder

    Very well said. Glad to see someone who has had it all, understands life isn’t just about them. CWAPB2013@Gmail.com
    The worlds dogs could use more change from films. I hope you consider them in your future passion. I’m happy for you sir. God has blessed you with vision.

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    Even if only a few ever received overhead deals, they were a structure that allowed producers to pursue quality over quantity. They did not come from privilege or connections but from the output of consistent quality or vision. Yet, as they more often than not did not produce quick enough results, their utility is no longer recognized. But even without overhead deals, we can design a system that still promotes quality — we just don’t have it yet and I don’t think we should contribute to the opposite. My shift is part of what I can do to change things. I would not ask anyone to do what I am not willing to do myself.

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    I hope it works out well!

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    Right now I am not looking for new projects. I have still have a few too many in my flock to tend to them as well as I would like. I also want to focus on building a better infrastructure for all of us. Perhaps in a few years things will align so I can produce the GREAT quality ones you have read then Poly….

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    True, that. There’s more great stories to be told. I look forward to our paths aligning down the road.

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    It sounds to me like you are seeing things clearly. Or at least we have the same vision. Although I will admit my glasses have a few smudges on them even now.

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    And may the honey be sweet!

  • IndieProducerSecrets

    I think we now have to make “independent” mean what it implies- not being dependent on the vagaries, misguided impulses and strange ideas of studios, funders, distributors and so on. That is a tough ask in film, unless you are well off or making micro films, but funding, making and distributing a film; which is what we have done with our last project means I feel I can say I’m truly independent, and closer to how I used to operate even in a system. Athough how sustainable it is long term, is another questions. At least I feel clean! I don’t wear glasses but things still get smudgy!

  • Joseph F. Alexandre

    I appluad what you’re doing and I certainly hope that’s the case. Obviously, someone such as yourself deserves to both make quality films, and make a living… I can’t help but think this is sort of the way artistic endeavors have always worked to a degree tho. I think of someone like Welles, crawling around on his hands and knees through Southern Europe cobbling together financing his later master works like Chimes at Midnight or The Trial. Orson Welles was someone who literally changed cinematic grammar and earned a certain right to stability thru his output.
    How we can design a system that still promotes quality?

  • Jeremiah Kirby

    Ted – It’s so refreshing to have discovered this blog literally a week after graduating from a media program with hopes to enter the industry. The midwest is quite a bit behind in times compared to LA/NY but it’s nice to actually hear the REAL conversations – not just the ones they tell the bright eyed green students in school or the new indie filmmakers.

    So for that thank you for taking the time to do this, as well as respond to comments throughout the discussion. I haven’t read all of them yet but it’s great to see engagement.

    As for this topic – I’ll save my opinions until I learn more from all the angles but I totally agree that storytelling in general has been left behind in the big markets in exchange for statistics and politics. I plan on following this blog more closely… People are starving for better filmmaking and in time it will come. Just how and when is the question. Thanks!

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    I think we must remember that as audiences we vote with our wallets and market with our voices. We need to help what we love get noticed.

  • http://www.deadlinejunkies.com/ adam strange

    Great post. Thank you.

  • Sarah Bishop

    Ted. Thank you for this wonderful post. If the films you produce have even a fraction of the honesty in this article, then I have no doubt they will go towards achieving your goal of “lifting the world”.

  • dan

    Ted, I think your position is an important place to arrive at, to achieve your goal of greater control over your art & life. I have myself gone from producer/director to distributor, to online marketer, back to producer/director over last 20 yrs. I think the internet is currently offering some new windows of opportunity. I too have found other ways to make a living as film pays when it pays, but it is hard to set a clock to it without getting stuck making reality tv sausages. Anyhow, in 2014, though I am not ready to offer details, we are going to release a self distribution platform, which we hope will go a long way to restoring the relationship between creator and audience in this arena. I know we have all heard it before, but no one has done it right yet. From my point of view, the tools are now ripe and niche films have a new opportunity not possible even 12 months ago. Thanks for your honesty, it is always refreshing. Don’t give up,

  • http://outinthestreetfilms.com/ Out in the Street Films

    If YouTube videos can get hundreds of thousands of hits, and micro/low budget films like Blair Witch, Napoleon Dynamite, or Paranormal Activity can make huge returns on small investments, then why can’t indie filmmakers make sustainable livings? We are doing something wrong. And signing distribution deals is a huge part of the problem. Cut out the crooks.

  • Orwellrollsinhisgrave

    This is my first comment on this website.
    As a former NYU grad Film student (a year ahead of Spike), I labored in indie narrative films, moved to documentary films starting with “Orwell Rolls In His Grave.” On average, films take several years or more. In the case of Orwell… I began to think
    more about “how can I intervene” culturally and politically, as I watched the run up
    to the 2000 election insult. Alas, Orwell Rolls… nailed part of the problem but
    the level of corruption has outrun the penetration of internet voices. I realized that
    intervening politically in such an entrenched vertically monopolized media won’t
    work (witness the DC circuit ruling against net neutrality). But the idea of intervening
    stuck. For the past 7 years I have made a doc called “To Age or Not To Age;
    during this time I ran across a theory by GB Shaw dramatized in his play
    Back to Methuseleh. He posits (humorously) that man needs to live to at least 300
    years. The problem being that people say to themselves: “I’ve got 30 or 40 good
    years, screw everyone else’ And, the idea that you can’t change human nature
    or that history repeats itself is based on lifespan. If people loved to 150+ they’d
    start to care about global warming. Anyway, the scientists I film on a continuing
    basis believe we can radically intervene in both health span and lifespan. On December 19, 2013 Harvard’s David SInclair published a paper in CELL, where in they reversed the metabolic age of a mouse (60 yrs old inhuman terms) to 20 years old, in a week. I just published an 7 min excerpt from my interview with David on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7ay1LWgiM4

    Somehow, all this blather has something to do with Ted’s quandary, and our
    larger political stagnation. I have found that progressives are uninterested in this
    watershed. My opinion is that it may provide a backdoor to helping seemingly
    intractable problems, including the status of indie film.

  • B Sharp

    Wow, what you say brings tears to my eyes.

    Especially this: “I may work several years on a script with a writer and/or director, getting it to a place that it can attract cast
    and financing.”

    For 7 months, a couple of friends and I, developed and co-wrote an original project and pitched it to a Studio head. It was picked up in
    joint venture by 2 major studios. Snagged the whale we did! The Studios felt that because it was our first project they would feel better if we worked with someone trusted. We were made producers and was handed a list of list of big name writers they would accept to “finish” our script. Luckily, one of the big names understood our concept and loved our first draft. We truly felt he was one with us. The studio Shepherds assigned to us had a better idea. They didn’t want to pay his fee. Instead, we were lured, guided, and wined-and-dined
    into working with a writer they wanted. He had a recent hit that was making them money.

    Well, guess what? Their writer changed our script for the worst. Refused to make any changes my partners wanted, I wanted, the Shepherds wanted, or even any changes that both the Studios wanted. And, when we made changes to our script, he threatened to
    go to the union and told me to shut up, on my own project, and just take the money. Here’s the rub, as a producer there is no money unless it’s made. That means NO dough. In the end, because he the writer would not make changes the Studios dropped the project.

    Until that time, I have never worked for 7 months for free. Trust me; I cannot afford to work for 7 months for free.

    However, the writer—their writer—was paid very well by the studio.
    Oh the horror.

  • scamfest

    Sundance is a fuck fest fraud, scammers, bullshiters, corrupt!
    Go see for yourself you fools.

    http://www.sundancefilmfestival2013.com

  • http://hopeforfilm.com/ Ted Hope

    Sent from a device that leads me to be more concise than I might otherwise.

  • tensacross

    I met you from my early days working with Christine in the early 90s. You impressed me then, you do moreso now. Thank you for refusing to compromise to the evils of the money system!

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