Building The Community Web Around an Artist

I'm not a filmmaker, but I hail from the film society movement where the idea of a community of disparate souls organising around a common interest in cinema is bread and butter. So while I appreciate the effort required to build and maintain such relationships, and fashion them into something that can bring mutual benefit to filmgoers and filmmakers alike, I get the idea in principle.

I just want to comment on what may first seem a rather minor point, but which has implications for realising any community-building strategy.

In the Grateful Dead example, you write: 'start by setting goals for yourself and thinking through the small steps you can take to achieve them.' That caught my attention, as someone who works in project planning (often with not-for-profits and community-based organisations). It's a neat distillation of a simple but powerful way to break down your planning and delivery, referred to in other contexts as a 'Theory of Change' approach (Google the term, if you're interested).

What makes this approach so useful is that it requires you to really think hard about the end result you hope to achieve. Too often people launch into planning with only a half-formed idea, and they rush to devise tactics and actions because- quite understandably- they want to get started as quickly as possible. But by taking time to devise a proper goal, and then work backwards from that to understand, small step by small step, what's needed to achieve that goal, will improve your chances of success by providing a blueprint that can be adjusted in light of experience. Such a blueprint also allows you to communicate your ideas to collaborators/funders/partners, so everyone has a clear sense of what's being done and why.

I could go on, but now's not the time or place. I'll just pick up on the idea of a 'proper goal'. The example you cite ( 'A goal could be to start building an email list of names so that you can speak directly with your community) conflates means and ends.

The goal statement should be an end, thereby leaving you free to specify various means (often goals will require multiple strands of activity for their achievement). Creation of an email list may be one such action, but if the goal is 'direct communication with community' other considerations come to the fore, like the content, frequency and tone of those communications etc.

In fact, this 'goal' is actually not the final end point a filmmaker will be aiming for; it is really only one of the steps towards a higher end. And it is in thinking about what you own 'higher end' is (flogging lots of DVDs/downloads, winning awards, raising funding for future projects, promoting a political cause, or whatever) that should be the real starting point of any such community-building initiative.

What I saw in the comments and in Sheri's post was that the issue is really content. It was brought up, once, by one of my Facebook friends: we create fan pages for ourselves, invite people to become fans, when we haven't created enough content to warrant the loyalty of fans. I think this can also be applied to a web/tribe. I think Sheri has a valid argument here in the support of the tribe... but the band she used as her example, as pointed out, had music that had built the following already.

This is what I would say: have a filmmaker make 3-4 films. Then have that filmmaker bring a PMD on board to help bring the fans of those films and that filmmakers brand together. The 3-4 films should have given a good taste to the audience of what that filmmaker is about. I can assume that most filmmakers are like myself. Film A and Film B won't necessarily be about the same thing or even the same genre. So, if someone becomes a fan of Film A it doesn't necessarily mean they'll be a fan of Film B.

My point: Filmmakers need to do what they do best, but with an eye into how to use that to draw the potential audience/fans. For a filmmaker to "talk" about stuff is okay. But for a filmmaker to "show" his/her stuff is better. I'd suggest making something. Even if it's just a visual pitch, a short film, etc that's related to the film you're working on and using that to engage the audience. People say, "put your money where your mouth is", well I'd say "put your visual entertainment where your mouth is". So chatting with your fans is cool, but what they really want is the content. Spend more time on content, less on chatting.

Now I would dare to say that I believe that I have stumbled upon a visual concept that can change how a filmmaker engages with their audience from the beginning, during pre-production. I can't go into detail, yet, because I'm working on my first one of these and really don't want to spoil it for anyone. But once I go public on it I'll write a blog post detail what it is.

Hi, Sheri. Thank you again for taking the time to share your thoughts and wisdom! Much appreciated...

First, I want to completely affirm the notion of needing "Permission" to build a web/tribe. I feel this has been a major presumption in most DIY conversations and has not been adequately mentioned. It's almost like a tough truth that many don't want to talk about. Rather, we want to jump right into the sexy stuff, the business, getting fans, making sales, etc.. On the other hand, I consider most filmmakers (LIKE MYSELF) "Nobody" Filmmakers: not having any reputation. Thus, it's foolish to attempt to build a web, gather a tribe as a nobody. As you say, you need permission, you need a foundation to build the community upon, and that is one's body of work! It's so easy these days to create a blog, Facebook page, whatever, but the hard part has never changed: the work, the films, the innovative vision and execution, the original ideas, etc..

For instance, you mention the Grateful Dead's use of address cards. However, what you left out is that the Dead already had Gold and Platinum albums leading up to that point! That's huge! We're talking thousands and thousands of fans in place ready and eager to give out their addresses! If the Dead tried that as Nobody musicians, they wouldn't get any addresses.

Finally, I really think your thoughts regarding genuine, authentic connection between the Artist Leader and his/her tribe is unrealistic. You even back step in your post a bit. You establish "genuinely wanting to connect with people," then, later, you give an example of receiving an automated email and being okay with it.

Somewhere on here Ted proposes that a filmmaker needs about 5,000 true fans to sustain him/herself. So, I ask, how can one "genuinely" personally connect with that many people? It's impossible. This may sound ludicrous, but I've sent Roger Ebert multiple, intelligent, thoughful Tweets and have never, ever heard back from him. Yet, the man single-handedly dominate my feed! To be honest, I'm a bit resentful and feel ignored, which, ultimately, proves your point! :)

Thank you again, Sheri!!!

-Christopher J. Boghosian

Hi Christopher
Thanks for taking the time to comment. In the work that I read and cite in my post, The Dead did NOT start with gold records and millions of fans. They did hit the road and collect, by hand, address lists and started their communication by snail mail as that was the only thing available to them. It slowly grew and I think I hammered that home in this post and the one to follow tomorrow.

No, you will not walk into a thousand or five thousand true fans in a few weeks. It takes years, absolutely no getting around that if you don't have LARGE budgets to reach a LARGE mass of which only a percentage will actually connect with you. How do you do it with little to no budget, just start meeting people, go to events, embed yourself in online communities, start talking. I am telling you it works. I KNOW it works and tomorrow I give you a few examples.

I definitely take issue with the fact that most examples at the moment are musicians, as if this is something that can only be accomplished by them. Do you think people who play music have an inherent sense of reaching people? They have had a least half a decade to start utilizing the new tools, when their industry started going through the change first. What they do, you can do. Just watch and learn.

As far as what David says, regarding only looking at artists for what they can sell us. I think that is a really sad way of looking at the world. As if it is only there to sell you a product. Art is only good if it sells and that must be his only reason for it to be at all. I guess he loves the advertising world and can't imagine a life without it. Ok...

It is disconcerting that filmmakers bristle at this notion. I figure if you don't want to do this, so be it. Just don't whine about the Hollywood that won't pick up your script or your film and put it out there, instead remaking what worked before. There is nothing holding you back from building an audience and providing great work to them, except your mentality. Of course, you can scorn this work or say it can't be done. Just stay out of the way of those actually doing it.

Hey, Shari.

Regarding the Dead, this is what you wrote: "This is exactly what The Dead did starting in 1971, long before social media made it easy. They placed a call to action postcard in the album sleeve of the famous “Skull and Roses” asking “Dead Freaks Unite!” by sending in their addresses."

So I did my research and found out that the Dead already had Gold and Platinum by 1971! I'm simply going off of the example and its context that you gave.

The reason why I'm nitpicking, Sheri, is because we are given examples all the time that don't relate to us starting filmmakers. To hear about the Dead at 1971 is not helpful. They already had a ton of momentum. However, in your reply to me above, you clarify that the Dead started with collecting addresses way before 1971, and that's way more inspiring and helpful to a guy like me. Know what I mean? I want to hear about the Dead way before they were "The Dead!" :) So it's inspiring to me to think of the Dead as "nobodys" playing in little bars asking strangers for addresses. That's inspiring!!! Not a mass professionally manufactured album insert sold to hundreds of thousands worldwide. That example doesn't help me because I am no where near there.

See, the thing is that guys like me (and Mike?) are very sensitive and tired. We work very hard on our filmmaking and get discouraged by people's apathy toward our career and the very, very crowded marketplace we need to "compete" in. The internet is a blessing and a curse. It's a curse because now there is even more people screaming and yelling, as you very well know.

So to be given examples like the Dead in 1971 or Dan Mirvish who is a Slamdance co-founder with nearly 3,000 FB friends is not very inspiring. For all I know (and call me cynical) some folks contributed to Dan in the hopes of getting an "in" at Slamdance. In fact, one of his perks was to ride up to Sundance with him in a minivan. Examples like the Dead of '71 and Mirvish point to what could be, but not what is possible now.

Regarding paragraph #2, I totally agree with you and it sounds like that's what your next post will be about. Yes, it starts with one person at a time and it takes many years! Unfortunately, and I bet you'll agree with me, many aspiring filmmakers are on the one-year plan, not the ten or twenty! Many of us have a lazy sense of entitlement and grandiose vision of ourselves and our work. So we expect things to happen fast. Maybe communication technology, like the net, has perpetuated this, in that we think we can gather fans faster now since they are simply a click away!

Finally, just to clarify, due to the impersonal nature of the net, I hope you did not have me in mind with your last paragraph. I value your thoughts and insight very much and I'm very much on-board with your school of thought, which is exactly why I have invested so much time commenting to your article. In the end, you advocate that us filmmakers take ownership of our work, career and fans, which I completely and absolutely agree with.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to post and reply to comments!

-Christopher

hi christopher, i'm not tired or discouraged, just annoyed at the "experts" that sit in their ivory towers far away from the real world and give people unrealistic advice based on very extreme examples. this is a reason why the marketplace is overcrowded. aspiring filmmakers listen to the candy-coated advice of people like sheri and get the impression that it's so easy and plausible.

Hey Mike

I both agree and disagree with what you're saying... And forget Ohio, try Gateshead, England for a population of poor Philistine sports and beer fans! I also get frustrated at the ""experts" that sit in their ivory towers far away from the real world and give people unrealistic advice based on very extreme examples... aspiring filmmakers listen to the candy-coated advice of people like sheri and get the impression that it's so easy and plausible." I don't think I have EVER read Sheri say that crowd funding or social media marketing is easy, in fact I'm pretty sure she says it will take years! The point with all of this advice is that it needs to be adapted to your individual situation - and most importantly it's about "owning your audience" not in a literal way but insofar as you have a direct route to them rather than through a studio or a sales agent or distributor.

The fact you raised $15k from your network is amazing - but the reason people like Seth and Sheri wax lyrical about the internet is that it removes the geographical hurdle that those of us who live in Bumf*ck, Nowhere have always had in our way. I have a great rapport with my Twitter followers and they are from all over the world. Have they given me any money? No, because I haven't asked for any - but I do have an army of advocates for my film from places I never even knew existed and they have offered to rally local audiences when we tour our film late next year. For finance we are going to traditional equity financiers - again from all over the world... The one thing that has impressed them more than anything in our business plan (yes even more than the numbers - that are very modest) is the fact that we have demonstrated a ton of market research - and that market research was made both possible and palatable because of the advice people like Sheri and Seth. I don't take what they (or anyone else for that matter) says as gospel - but taking a little snippet from here and a tidbit from there has so far proven to be just the formula I was looking for - not the formula for a magic shortcut to moviemaking nirvana but rather a distillation of stuff I had been wondering about for a long time - which is how to get my films made and in front of an audience (that is large and underserved) when it is the antithesis of what the gatekeepers in the UK film industry will finance/ market or distribute.

Good luck with your projects - keep fighting the fight and go easy on Sheri, she TRULY is one of the good guys. xxx

hey zahra, i don't always believe everything i write either, so we are probably on the same page. sometimes it's necessary to play devil's advocate whenever some perspectives are being ignored.

how did you get your twitter followers? that has clearly worked for you. it wouldn't work for me. i don't have the personality for twittering. does that make me less of a filmmaker? from sheri's advice it seems so.

maybe she is one of the "good guys", but according to her twitter page i'm "some guy named mike" that's "just very bitter and unsure". really shari, you know me that well? i have a hard time believing a "good guy" would take the time to do something so trivial to a "nobody" like me. that's typical Hollywood bullshit. heaven forbid someone disagree with you Hollywood elitists. i keep forgetting that everyone in that town thinks they are right about everything.

good luck with your projects as well!!! i just checked out Pissheads, that looks pretty cool, keep me updated.

Mike - Thanks for your kind words re Pissheads, I think you seem like a cool guy... But you do come across as quite bitter and nasty in some of your comments. I'm sure it's not deliberate but the thing is you need to keep things in perspective.

The point I'm trying to make is (and I'm not trying to be patronising or condescending here) is that we are all in the same boat. Sheri, you, me, Jon Reiss and probably even Ted. Since the financial crisis about 10 people in the world can automatically get a film greenlit. For the rest of us it's all about hustling, wheeling and dealing and pulling out all of the stops to get our films made. Ted and Sheri et al are trying to work stuff out like the rest of us. We/ they ARE writing the playbook as we go, there's no right or wrong way - there never really was (that's the real secret) and it's even truer today.

There isn't much of a Hollywood elite anymore and nobody in the Indy world is in that gang - even the Weinsteins of this world have struggled with cash flow problems. Sheri is about as far away from that Hollywood elite as you and I. She may be somewhat better connected but that has come about from a concerted effort over the last few years... there's no reason why you and I and the rest of us who are out of the clique can't start making those connections - but it IS a long hard slog and to reiterate or actually rephrase - you and I (and Ted and Jon and Sheri and Slamdance) we ARE the industry - it is not apart from us... You make films therefore you are a filmmaker, what has changed the reality on the ground: falling revenues (don't let 3D adjusted box office figures fool you), competition from AWESOME TV, games etc have all meant it's much harder to make money from movies and Hollywood is taking less chances than it ever has - what the new "internet way of doing things" is doing is giving a whole new wave hope that for the first time they can make a living (not necessarily a fortune - but a living) from our content - some people (eg Sheri) give advice to filmmakers on how to use the tools to get the most out of them... Because let's face it when we have our heads in a movie when do we time to look up at the bigger picture? To survive in this world you need more than the usual filmmakers' toolkit - you need to be an entrepreneur, a salesperson, a web guru, a marketing whizz the list goes on - clearly life is too short to become an expert in all of these fields - but you MUST be aware of them so that when you engage people for various parts of the process you can make sure they are doing the job properly. A lot of this is stuff your distributor would do for you - but if you haven't got a distributor (and that's no longer a sign that your film is shit by the way) then *someone* need to do it or the grim reality is that your film will never reach the audience you would like it to. But as I said above it's trail and error, we (you and me and the rest of our generation) are making it up as we go along, some things will wok and some won't.

You ask how I got my followers on Twitter - I have no fucking clue... I break most of the conventional rules: I swear, I tweet politics, I tweet sports and I have no focus in what I tweet - BUT and I think this is my saving grace - I am genuine and I try to help people... Sometimes it's something silly for example someone tweeted they were looking for a 24 hour veterinarian in Belfast for their dog - one of my followers is a cab driver in Belfast - I just connected them! That's all, no secret... Just being nice - a little bit of paying it forward.

It's easy to be pissed off, I should know I spend much of my time pissed off - but the thing is you have to pick your battles (like the people who fucked up the economy in the first place) - and bear in mind that just as you were hurt by some of the comments Sheri has made - she too is a person not a faceless corporation and was probably hurt by some of the things you wrote. We all get like that from time to time and it's easy to rag on people online because it's easy to forget that behind those words is a person.

So it's Christmas day and I've spent FAAAR too long on this, stay cool - make movies and pay it forward.
xxx

yeah, that's the problem with the internet, stuff you write can be misinterpreted and blown out of proportion. i wasn't trying to be an asshole.

if anything, i think this blog has proven that i'm not cut out to be a filmmaker in this new age of filmmaking. i commend the filmmakers that can remain hopeful in this hopeless time.

merry xmas and a happy new year!

Naaa definitely not. What's is proven is you're a human - just like the rest of us. I see you and I are now connected on Vimeo. I really like some of your stuff (particularly the drugs PSA) - you've clearly got talent. What you need to do is examine your skillset (I think they call it a SWOT analysis) and then start building a team of people around you whose talents make up for your weaknesses. If you have no money then try bartering skills and resources. Build a cool collective of likeminded folk with whom you can conquer the world.

Peace out xxxx

@sheri...you're dream selling again and trying to create straw men in the interim. Please read my comments before you replace the words "filmmaker" with "artist" and remove the notion of a sales agent with "he loves the advertising world". Last time I checked it was you that worked as "an inbound marketing expert". Last time I checked I worked in "finance". which one of us works in advertising Sheri?

I work for people who put money in films. Those people look for a way to protect their interests while providing funding to individuals with big ideas.

Tell me again how you make your loving Sheri?

These posts are becoming invaluable to me. I am starting out as a film maker. I am taking the OJT and reading a lot route for now. I am also seeing the need to build a community around myself. I think as filmmakers it behooves us to start doing this.

hmmmm.....some good points in the later paragraphs but its the opening one I'm going to comment on.

1. You talk so much in all your posts about creating conversations and trying to get artists to provide more than their art work within a dialog that you forget the reason as to why we as fans of those artists are there in the first place....their art. Whose got an ulterior motive now? The way you are telling artists to lure people in is a violation of my time (a scarce commodity) as a fan. Get to the point and sell me something....I'm not interested in knowing that the science fiction director I like is participating in the annual Dog Walk for Hope marathon. Stop wasting my time.

2. You talk a lot about Seth Godin, and for the most part Seth has some amazing things to say. The part you always leave out that Seth Godin always says in his talks is that if you are not marketing yourself or your product then you have nothing, and that you better learn how to do this if you want to survive or find someone who will and make them part of your brand experience. Maybe your next post should be about how filmmakers can find and negotiate fair terms with someone who is interested in doing this for them since most people who are indeed creative will collapse in fear at the mere mention of what you continually post.

3. Your statement about reciprocity is valid and this is where you will find challenges as most filmmakers are not hard wired to have people help them and then go out reciprocate the offer. This is the fundamental issue that most people who are creative in nature do not grasp, and that is that in business there is a transaction and in that transaction there is an exchange. I give you something and you give me something in return, and that is the fundamental human condition. You can wrap bows of altruism and happy thoughts around it all you like and call it goodwill but in the end I'm there to consume as a fan so give me my movie and as a filmmaker you better not expect anything from me without this exchange. There is no such thing as a free lunch. This is why filmmakers have producers, executive producers, and sales agents, so they can focus on what they do best and allow the others who do what they do best to do the same.

All in all your points on how to do this are valid but where I think you make a huge error is in thinking that this is the job of a filmmaker, when its obvious that its not.

Added I do think there needs to be more discussion on how a filmmaker and what a filmmaker should expect to receive (both creatively and financially) from working with the right groups that could do this for them and how to walk through the process, understand it and feel comfortable with all the needed aspects of project moving forward.

Hi, David.

I don't resonate with your point #1. Sure, most may not care about a director's participation in a Dog Walk; however, I, as a filmmaker, most definitely care about his/her process, struggles, wisdom, experience, etc.. That's why we buy their books, listen to commentaries, go to Q&As, etc.. One of my favorite online artists is painter Robert Genn. He's not even a filmmaker, but I'm continually inspired, educated and motivated by his writing about painting and life in general, yet, I probably will never purchase one of his paintings.

Regarding your point #2, I'd like to add that there is a major assumption in all this talk of help from others, namely a PMD. The assumption is that one can afford and/or recruit someone like this. Most people who visit this blog are probably not in the position to pay someone or ask someone for major time-intensive favors. So, in reality, it most definitely will be the filmmaker who has to do all this, which is why reading articles like this can get so depressing: we realize that we have no money, connections nor leverage to find someone, thus, there's another major task (burden?) we as filmmakers have dumped on our already full plate of to-dos!

Peace,
Christopher

Christopher,

Your appreciation of a filmmaker, being a filmmaker yourself is not the same as a fan's appreciation of filmmaker. This is the disconnect. To understand the audience you need to think like them.

This post and this blog is about independent film or TRULY FREE FILM as it is properly named. All other genres of artistic expression are not even relevant to the discussion as far as I'm concerned and I'm surprised by the number of people who are duped into thinking that a very collaborative, time consuming and expensive industry form such as film could even be compared at to the likes of recording, painting, and writing. They are miles apart in stature and execution.

You are correct in that my point *is* that you get help from an sales agent, executive and/or marketer to help you, but don't be afraid to negotiate. What you have is intellectual property and that still stands for something. Don't pay someone in advance to help you with your deal - get someone to commit to your deal, split it up and carve it out.

100% of 0 = 0 , but 50% of something can mean something.

Don't be greedy and don't let fear get in your way. They are the two biggest deal killers of all.

cheers

Thanks for the reply, Dave. I'm assuming you are whom I replied to, right? David Geertz?

I'd like to split the difference with my position of appreciating an artist as an artist myself and your notion of a fan. I believe many fans who don't participate in the craft/business of their "icon" still want to know about that person's process, professional life, hence, biographies, blogs, etc.. I'm just saying that there is a place for the artist to share about his/her professional life/process. Not all will care, but many will. It's a part of the art itself. It informs it, contextualizes it. To many, it makes it more meaningful and valuable.

And good thoughts on negotiating. Seriously, seeing all those "no pay" gigs on Craigslist makes me feel just like one of them when, but if I'm fairly negotiating as you say, then I am offering something of value. It's true, when I have a script and/or a produced film to negotiate with, I've spent countless hours and a lot of money already, which has tremendous value!

Thanks for the encouragement and positive perspective!

cB

so what you are saying is that filmmakers must now become cult leaders. do you realize the time, money and effort it takes to successfully execute your web building strategy? how is any filmmaker supposed to find the time and energy needed to make films if they have to build a cult?

this crowdfunding fad is a bunch of idealistic hogwash. it's just a new form of begging. i know there are examples of artists that have succeeded at it, but more often than not i would guess they are trust fund babies with wealthy friends and family.

better yet, what are the odds at succeeding at crowdfunding? i would bet they are worse than getting a 3 picture deal from a major studio. why aren't filmmakers with large followings like kevin smith and michael moore taking this approach to fund their films?

also, i think it's time to stop comparing filmmakers to musicians. just because an approach works for musicians doesn't mean it will work for filmmakers.

Mike, I can see why you find it hard to believe why anyone would want to donate to you, given your condescending and dismissive manner. But that's fine. Filmmaking is not for ordinary people who can't make the time. I've visited your web site. You're not a professional filmmaker. You're a hobbyist. There's a difference.

hi zak, i'm sorry you feel that way. why the need to attack me? it seems as if my comments have somehow struck a nerve with you personally, which is quite weird considering i wasn't talking to you or about you. where exactly was i condescending? i find it ironic that a pretentious filmmaker in LA has the nerve to call anyone condescending.

what is the difference between a hobbyist and a professional? after checking your website i'm having a hard time understanding your definition. having a nice camera that makes your videos look pretty doesn't mean you are a "pro".

First let me apologize for the harshness of tone i took with you. You definitely struck a nerve and I should have taken more time to consider my words more carefully. I don't consider dismissing sheri's contribution here on the topic of crowdfunding as "idealistic hogwash" for people born with a silver spoon in their mouth, as the sort of thing niche audiences want to get behind. Because i can tell you that you're way off the mark. I have good friends who struggle to make ends meet, but who've discovered audiences eager to throw their support behind them from one project to the next. And I feel like the people in our community who are working twice as hard as you and me (not wasting time commenting on blogs) are MAKING the time to do what's necessary to connect with audience and honing their craft. And I'd bet my life they exhibit the same attributes and drive that has always elevated our best and brightest, leaving the rest of us to run in circles on the internet.

no worries. i was surprised that you would take the time to attack a nobody filmmaker like me whose opinion is ultimately meaningless. i was a fan of your efforts before this unnecessary attack.

i'm not dismissing sheri's contribution, i'm just trying to offer her a perspective that she's not considering b/c filmmakers in my shoes never get our voices heard, especially by people in LA. we just get pooped on and ignored. everyone just dismisses us b/c we have nothing immediately to offer those of you already in the filmmaking club.

i like this blog b/c ted is honest, genuine, and straightforward. sheri's post doesn't seem honest. it seems to come from a marketer's perspective and we all know that marketer's aren't the most honest people.

who are these struggling artists that have found success and support that you speak of? these are the examples i want to hear about. i don't want to hear about examples of already successful artists finding more success and i don't think the readers of this blog care about that either. we want examples of people that were or are in our shoes. does that make sense?

Ha! Don't judge me by my zip code. I grew up in the Middle of Fucking Nowhere, Pennsylvania and only live in Los Angeles because I'm more or less unemployable in any other city. Here is a video from one of my community events featuring two filmmakers that are identifying/building niche audiences and sustaining their filmmaking thru crowdsourced funds. Coupla trust fund kids...

http://cinefist.com/2010/07/co...

sorry you feel this way Mike and that this concept is too overwhelming for you.

So if crowdfunding is distasteful to you, how do you propose to do raise money or get your films made barring rich relatives or an in with VCs and angel investors? I don't think this is a fad or going away and I know PLENTY of filmmakers doing it,some multiple times. I just spoke with Dan Mirvish yesterday fresh off of raising over $14K in 30 days for his film. You know what they have that you don't? A network of people willing to help them, people who respect them as filmmakers and want to support them. You clearly have no time to build and nurture this so not really sure what to advise you. Dan starts shooting in March, how's your project's financing going?

If Kevin Smith wanted to do it, it would be no problem for him. Not really sure what is stopping him actually. He doesn't mind asking for $5K to marry a couple during his live podcasts.

In my post tomorrow, Kevin is featured as a great example of a filmmaker with a community. It didn't just happen because he has Hollywood films. He has been building and nurturing that community since 1995. He has so many different revenue streams, he doesn't have to depend on only his films. Great for him!

sheri, thanks for the condescending response, i appreciate it:)

speaking of my project's financing, not that you actually care, it has hit a wall. you can learn a little about it at www.livinthedreammovie.com. i've already tapped out my family and friends, which amounted to more than $15K over the last 2 years. so in that regard i guess you can say i'm more successful than mr. slamdance co-founder since i've raised more money than him and that was without a kickstarter campaign or a huge network of people.

now what do i do? set up a kickstarter campaign and ask complete strangers to donate? that's absurd. i'm a nobody filmmaker from southern ohio. people in ohio don't support the arts, they like to waste their money on meaningless things like shopping and sports.

the point that I'm trying to make is that your advice is not realistic for filmmakers that live in areas where people don't care about supporting the arts. where i live people would much rather spend $500 for a ticket to a college football game than give that to help a filmmaker make a movie.

i don't have the luxury of living in an ivory tower out in lala land like you, where people just throw money at the arts. i live in the real world outside the bubble you live in. where i live people are struggling to make ends meet and they definitely don't give a shit about supporting the arts.

what's your advice for filmmakers that don't live in areas with strong support for the arts?

Mike, if I may, I'd like to answer your final question. Basically, don't depend on others to make your film. If there is very little support, then do much with very, very little. I'm sure you already know this, but you asked.

Okay, so I raised $9000 for my feature, which is being edited, but I want to start on another project in January. Rather than do another IndieGoGo campaign and ask again, I'm going to use available (free) resources and film away. I'm not going to sit and write another expensive script. I'm going to workshop with a couple actors in locations we have free, secure access to. It's going to cost us nothing! And because of the web, I can share my little films or whatever we come up with for free! I can potentially reach millions without spending a dime.

I know you know this, Mike. You clearly are a very intelligent person; I'm just stating the obvious as encouragement. Honestly, and I totally mean this, I would rather watch an extremely low-budget/no-budget film made in Ohio with incredible qualities, than yet another million dollar "indie film" with a socially relevant theme and "high" production value. I want guts. Real, genuine, authentic guts. Even if it's a guy with a miniDV camera in his room talking into the camera for 80-minutes.

As an aspiring filmmaker myself, I'm trying desperately to find out what I can do for nothing, within my available means, yet do it authentically, innovatively and packed with a punch!

Then, taking Shari's concepts into consideration, I will share, one person at a time and hopefully make some great connections...

Just thought I'd share, man, because I honestly feel your pain and totally understand where you're coming from, even though I'm in LaLaLand! Believe me, it's the same thing here man, apathy! Except, rather than spend $500 on a football game, it's a freakin' purse or a night of sushi!

cB

thanks man! i love your quote, "Let’s be honest: who are you and what is your film in comparison to the recession, natural disasters and the next Will Farrell movie? “Nothing.”"

Mike, your comment regarding crowdfunding is a bit extreme. You raise some valid points; however, I don't recommend throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I raised $9,000 with a goal of $12,000 on IndieGoGo recently. I'm not a trust fund baby nor are all my friends and family "wealthy." However, many who contributed comfortably gave. The key is to estimate how much your circle of committed supporters will contribute. I came pretty darn close, I think. So, even if one's estimate is $500, well, that's better than nothing.

Also, you'll be surprised at who gives and who does not. However, without crowdfunding, you'll never know! That opportunity is never there.

I did not beg at all. Begging is asking for something without deserving it; crowdfunding is asking for money from folks who want to support you and/or your film because you deserve it (according to their personal values).

Here's an article I wrote on Mubi regarding my crowdfunding experience: http://mubi.com/garage/posts/2...

congrats on your success! you are very lucky and i hope you understand that. where i come from expecting people to comfortably give $500 is asking too much from them.

Mike, with respect, you have the wrong approach, and the wrong attitude. Your approach is to get people to fork over money to "support the arts". Few people do this, including myself. But if you offer them opportunities to become involved, to acquire unique and valuable scarcities that only you can offer them, if you allow them a chance to become part of something cool... THAT is something people fork up money for. It needs to be tangible, it needs to feel like they got way more out of the experience than the amount of money they paid for it. What unique and valuable scarcities would you pay $500 for?

But maybe it's not $500. Maybe it's only $10. Maybe it's a LOT of people offering up $10. Maybe it's a large group of people feeling part of a community givING $10. And maybe that just gets the ball rolling to find a few larger donors...

The point is, it's about attitude. You can't look at it as, "That doesn't work here." If you say that, your brain shuts down to the possibilities. I know that sounds like mumbo-jumbo, but if you rephrase the statement as a question, "If it worked here, what would it look like?" then your brain is allowed to brainstorm until new ideas are unearthed.

Illustration by way of anecdote. A writer I met at the Screenwriting Expo lives in Seattle. He went to film school, wanted to shoot a film himself. He doesn't live in L.A. He struggled for a while, started a Kickstarter campaign. He asked me if I would help him get the word out about the campaign, and then I asked him if he'd consider writing an article for my blog. He did, I promoted his blog post, and good news—he successfully raised $10,075:
https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...

I'm not one of those Pollyanna types. But I do feel that it can happen if you keep your mind open to the possibility. It can't happen if you think it can't happen.

yes, i am wrong. i am wrong about everything. on the flip side, having the "right" attitude doesn't guarantee anything.

i'm not saying kickstarter campaigns can't be successful. that's totally different than what sheri is proposing.

also, you shouldn't assume you know someone's attitude simply by what they type on this huge impersonal world wide web. how do you know that i'm not smiling at all of this?

Based on your comments on the last couple of posts, you do seem easily offended and cantankerous. So, while I of course do not know you personally, I do know your words and have drawn certain conclusions from them as a whole.

Obviously, if I've totally misread you and your intentions from *your* words, I apologize for that... but in the end, it is our words that represent us. Flame wars start all too easily—I always extract anything too barbed from my own writing to keep from being misconstrued.

You seem to have invoked the disdain of many on this site. Do you not wonder what the common factor here is?

seriously, is this high school? how many minions does sheri have? lighten up, grow up, and learn not to take criticism personally.

actually, i've been quite sarcastic, but you probably don't have the sense of humor to see it. that's a BIG problem with indie film, the people in it take themselves way too seriously. the other problem is that it's impossible to show sarcasm over the internet.

if i was to draw certain conclusions, i would say you are a humorless pompous liberal elitist that thinks he's smarter than everyone, aka the typical Hollywood douche or NYC snob, but i don't judge people i've never met, nor had a real conversation with, so i'm not judging you.

words are emotionless over the internet and it's very presumptuous of you to judge me based on words that you have no context in which to judge them.

That explains it. I don't do sarcasm—it's *never* funny online. Quite the contrary, it comes across as belittling, bitter, and petty. To me, anyway.

But hey, if you're going to rely on a stream invective to prove your point (i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem, which means you're slandering my character, rather than addressing my arguments), we're done here.

"From Rehum the commander, Shimshai the scribe, and the rest of their companions--representatives of the Dinaites, the Apharsathchites, the Tarpelites, the people of Persia and Erech and Babylon and Shushan, the Dehavites, the Elamites, 10 and the rest of the nations whom the great and noble [b]Osnapper[/b] took captive and settled in the cities of Samaria and the remainder beyond the River--and so forth."

OH SNAP!

Thanks, Mike. I hope I did not come across as insensitive and presumptuous. To clarify, I did mean $500 total, as the entire crowdfunding goal, not from an individual. But, then again, even that could be tough within some circles...

cB

While all this is great and the struggle to develop an active strategy in the film environment now is necessary, I still wonder about the artists who don't want to do this. I manage a band. Some bands take aggressive DIY promotion seriously and some, it's just not in them. Most of the advice for artists seem to come from non-artists. And I wonder if the independent artists who make it this way will be the ones who are not necessarily the best storytellers but the ones who are best at self-promotion. Maybe that's the way it's always been.