May 11 at 7:05am

38 More Ways The Film Industry Is Failing Today

A year ago (May 15, 2009)  I wrote a blog post ” 38 American Independent Film Problems/Concerns”.Unfortunately, all of the problems I listed then still stand today; four or so from that list have improved slightly, but they certainly remain issues.  Of more concern is that the list keeps growing and growing.  I can contribute another 38 even more pressing issues today. You do the math: we now have over 75 things wrong with our industry that we are not taking action to fix.

In fact, we have no one to blame for this list but ourselves.  It is our inability to be proactive that has brought on us this terrible state. Ask yourself what currently concerns and frustrates you about where film culture and the film business are today.  What heights is our industry capable of reaching and how does it compare to where we actually are?  Do we really have the capacity to sit and wait to get there?  Isn’t our silence delaying the trip?

I must admit that I am a bit disappointed that I had no difficulty adding another thirty-eight items to this list of where we are failing.  The exciting part (and why #38 of last year ’s list was “lists like this make the foolish despair”) is that these lists demonstrate a tremendous opportunity for those willing to break from the status quo and take action.  Things may be wrong, but they could always be worse.  From here, we just have to work together to make it better.  It is that simple.  Every deficit is an opportunity for the creative entrepreneur, right?

So how has the film biz continued to reveal itself to be troubled this year?  What do I suggest we start to focus on, discuss, and find solutions for?  This list is a start, and I wager we will expand it substantially in the days ahead.

  1. We cannot logically justify any ticket price whatsoever for a non-event film.  There are too many better options at too low a price.  Simply getting out of the house or watching something somewhere because that is the only place it is currently available does not justify a ticket price enough.  We still think of movies as things people will buy.  We have to change our thinking about movies to something that enhances other experiences, and it is that which has monetary value.  Film’s power as a community organizing tool extends far beyond its power to sell popcorn (and the whole exhibition industry is based on that old popcorn idea).
  2. The Industry has never made any attempt to build a sustainable investor class. Every other industry has such a go-to funding sector, developed around a focus on the investors’ concerns and standardized structures.  In the film biz, each deal is different and generally stands alone, as opposed to leading to something more.  The history of Hollywood is partially defined by the belief that another sucker is born every minute.  Who really benefits by the limited options for funding currently available other than those funders and those who fee those deals?  We could build something that works far more efficiently and offers far more opportunity.
  3. The film business remains the virtually exclusive domain of the privileged.  Although great strides have been made to diversify the industry, the numbers don’t lie.  The film industry is ruled by white men from middle class or better socioeconomic backgrounds.  It is an expensive art form and a competitive field — but it doesn’t need to be a closed door one.  Let’s face it: people hire folks who remind them of themselves.  These days everyone needs to intern and the proposition of working for free is too expensive for most.  Living in NYC or LA is not affordable for most people starting out.  We get more of the same and little progress without greater diversity.  And although I essentially mentioned this last year (#36), the continued poor economy limits diversity even more now.
  4. There is no structure or mechanism to increase liquidity of film investments, either through clear exit strategies, or secondary capital markets.  The dirty secret of film investment is that it is a long recoupment cycle with little planning for an exit strategy.  Without a way to get out, fewer people choose to get in.  Who really wants to lock up an investment for four years?  Not investors, only patrons…
  5. Independent Filmmakers (and their Industry advisors) build business plans based on models and notions selected from before September 15, 2008 when Lehman Brothers collapsed and everything changed.  It is not the same business as it was then and we shouldn’t treat it that way.  Expectations have changed considerably, probably completely.  Buyers and audiences’ behaviors are different (those that still remain that is).  Products are valued at different levels.  We live in a new world.  Our strategies must change with it.
  6. The film business remains a single product industry. The product may be available on many different platforms, but it is still the same thing. For such a capital-intensive enterprise to sell only one thing is a squandering of time and money.  Films can be a platform to launch many different products and enterprises, some of which can also enhance the experience and build the community.
  7. We have done very little thinking or discussing about how to make events out of our movies.  The list seems to have stopped at 3D. There’s only been one “Rocky Horror Picture Show” and the first one is very very old.  Music flourishes because the live component is generally quite different from the recorded one, and the film biz could benefit from a greater differentiation of what utilizes different platforms.
  8. We ignore film’s most unique attribute. As demonstrated by how little of people’s online time is spent watching content (30%), we know that people want connectivity & community more than anything else. There used to be film societies, just like reviewers once placed films in cultural context — we need to recreate a community aspect to film going. If you wonder why people don’t go to the movies more, it is not as much about the content, as it is about the lack of community.  Without that, why not just stay home to watch?  Film’s strongest attribute is its ability to work as a community organizing tool.  Film forces us to feel, to think, to engage — let’s not ignore that.
  9. Independent film financing is still based around an antiquated foreign sales model despite the fact that all acquisition markets are collapsing and fee levels shrink market to market.  This old model is centered around stars’ perceived value — an attribute that has been less reliable than ever before.  There has got to be a better way than the foreign sales estimate model, but no one talks about it, or even admits to needing one.  The participants that get most hurt by this are the investors who take the advice of the “experts” that this is the way it’s done.  It used to be done this way, but we have to move on before we burn to the ground.
  10. Filmmakers don’t own their audiences yet (and few even attempt to).  What will happen when agents start to cut deals for their clients who have 1 million engaged fans, people who will pre-order their content, promote it passionately, and deliver more of their friends? There is a shift in the balance of power about to happen, and those that have prepared for it, amassed their followings, will be able to change the conversation significantly.
  11. We’ve failed to develop fetish objects to demonstrate one’s love of cinema.  The only merchandise we sell is “fan-boy” toys.   We need to come up with items that demonstrate their owner’s sense of style and taste.  Beyond the books of Tashen, what is there?  We can do better.  Such products manufacture desire and enhance identification with the art form.  We need to streamline the process of the transformation of leisure time into both intellectual and social capital (i.e movie going and its byproducts).  How do we identify, reward, and encourage those that appreciate our work?
  12. Creators, Distributors, and Marketers have accepted a dividing line between art and commerce, between content and marketing.  By not engaging the filmmakers in how to use marketing tools within their narrative and how to bring narrative techniques to marketing, we diminish the discovery and promotional potential of each film.  We limit the scope of our art by restricting it to the plane of the 90 minute product.  Movies should find us early, lead us to new worlds, bridge us to subsequent experiences, connect us to new passions and loves, help us embrace a more expansive definition of cinema, life, and self.
  13. We don’t recognize that one of film’s greatest assets is its ability to generate data.  Filmmakers and financiers should be insisting on owning the data their films generate. It is an incredibly valuable commodity.  The VOD platform allows for tracking of where and when and who in terms of the business, yet this data is restricted to aggregators not creators.  When you license something for a small fraction of its costs, shouldn’t you share in everything that it generates?
  14. We fail to utilize the two years from greenlight to release to market our film and build our audiences.  Despite having the key economic indicators (i.e. stars & concept) in place at the time of greenlight, we underutilize that two year period when we could be sourcing fans, aggregating them and providing them with both the ramps and the bridges necessary to lead them to our work and then carry them to other new work.
  15. Why can’t our Industry develop more stars?  The talented actors exist, but they don’t have “value”. Why is it that we don’t have more serious actors who are worth something financially?  Isn’t it just about giving them the roles that help them build audiences? Why don’t we encourage more actors to take more risks in terms of the characters they portray?  Audiences, filmmakers, financiers would all be better served by industywide initiatives to launch more talent.  Say what you will about the studio system of old, but they were damn good at developing new talent.
  16. We need a greater embrace of innovation and experimentation in terms of both business models and building communities.  We keep doing things based on the status quo long after the practice has stopped being fruitful.  People are so fearful of failing publicly that new approaches are shunned.  This is a perception and PR problem as much as it is a structural one.  Filmmakers should have the will to fail, and take risks (but be practical about it).
  17. We allow consumers to think content should be free but it is okay that the hardware they play it on is very very expensive.  All the entertainment industries allow the hardware manufacturers to have policies that encourage such thinking.  They get rich and it grows harder to be a creator by the day.  People only want the devices because there is so much great stuff to play on it.  Why is the balance of wealth so misguided here?
  18. We – neither the creators, audiences, or their representatives – don’t make a stink when aggregators get rich, and the content creators live on mere pittances.  It’s not just the product but also the services that have flourished on the labor of the creators.  Instead of growing angry we have been embracing those that gather and not those that grow.  Again, we need to look at the inequity here and re-evaluate how the equity is dispersed.
  19. We don’t insist that our artists are also entrepreneurs.  We don’t encourage direct sales to the fans.  We don’t focus on building mailing lists.  This needs to be as much an accepted “best practice” as it needs to be part of every art school curriculum.  We can’t keep producing artists and not prepare them to survive in the world.  Passion without a plan to support it can only lead to exploitation.
  20. We have failed to engage constructively with other industries that we should be aligned with, most obviously, the tech world.  Why is only SXSW where film, music, and tech meet?  Can’t we do better?  The music industry has The Future Of Music summit, but there is nothing similar in the film world.  The facilitators at the agencies rarely know who’s who in terms of web and tech designers.
  21. Where is the simple site where you can get whatever you want whenever you want however you want it (other than what the bootleggers offer)? Why do we let the thieves beat us at our own game?   Soon it will be too late to win the people back.  The fact that the one place that comes close is ultimately in the business of selling hardware — and the industry seems okay with that — shows how we can’t see the forest for the trees.
  22. Where are the new curators?  The ones with a national or international audience? Why have we not had a more concentrated industry/community wide effort to give a home to all the fired film critics?  Is it that we are afraid of the bad, just like the studios are afraid of social media and film future exchanges because they are worried about negative buzz? We just need to make better movies and treat people well and then there is no negative to spread, right?  Anyway, with such a plethora of great work being made we need to offer audiences better filters to sift through it. What’s up with our collective failure to deliver more Oprahs, individuals whose support will lead to action?
  23. The majority in the film industry are essentially luddites and technophobes, barely aware of the tools we have available to us to enhance, economize, and spread our work.  How can we teach our industry how to use what has already been invented (and then focus on everything else we need but don’t have yet).
  24. We don’t encourage (or demand) audience “builds” prior to production.  Why shouldn’t every filmmaker or filmmaking team be required to have 5000 Fans prior to greenlight?
  25. We know incredibly little about our audience or their behavior.  We spend so much making our films without really knowing who our audiences are, why they want our product, how to reach them, or how they behave, or how they are changing.  Does any other industry think so little and so late about their audience?  Does any other industry do such little research into their audience?  Shouldn’t we all be sharing what info we have?
  26. There is no major, visible, high-level “non-partisan” free-thought film industry think tank and/or incubator to consider new models, new approaches, and enhance audience appeal while inspiring both government and private investment,  developing “best practices” to maximize revenue and  audiences, expanding aesthetic methods, and facilitating the creative dialogue internationally.  IFP and FIND do their part, as do festival institutes but we need something that can consider the bigger problems than that of just US “Indie” filmmakers…
  27. Where’s that list on best practices for preventing your film from being pirated?  Shouldn’t all producers know this?  I know I don’t and I can’t name another producer who does.
  28. The Industry has no respect for producers.  Granted, this might sound a tad self-serving, but producers’ overhead, fees, credits, and support are under attack from all fronts.  Yet, it is the producers who identify and develop the material and talent, package it, structure the finance, identify the audience, and unite all the industry’s disparate elements.  All the producers I speak with wonder how they are to survive and remain in the business.
  29. Let’s face it: we are not good at providing filmmakers with long term career planning.  Whether it’s financial planning, secondary professions, or just ongoing learning — we don’t really get it, and that sets artists up as future prey.  As an industry, and as a class, creative people get stuck in a rut quite easily, and are the hardest dogs to teach new tricks.
  30. With our world and industry changing daily, shouldn’t we have come up with a place where we learn the new technology or at least hear of it?  One that is welcoming even for the luddites.  The tech sites speak their own vernacular which is a tad intimidating for the uninitiated.
  31. Where’s the embrace of the short-term release?  With digital delivery here, can’t we get in and get out, only to return again and offer it all over again?  The week-long booking of one film per theater limits content to that which appeals to the mass market.  Niche audiences are being underserved, and money is thus being left on the table and some highly appealing menus not even being considered.
  32. Film Festivals need to evolve a hell of a lot faster.  Festivals need to ask what their value-add is to both the filmmaker and the audience.  One or two could ask that of the industry overall too.  Now that we recognize that festivals are not a market, and that filmmakers have to do a tremendous amount of work ahead of time in order for them to be a media launch, the question remains what are festivals and who do they serve?  The everything-to-everybody style of curating films no longer works.  The run-of-the-mill panels have become dull and boring.  The costs associated for filmmakers attending are rarely worth the benefits they receive.  Film Festivals need to be rebuilt.  There are a lot of good ideas out there on how to do it, but not enough have been put into practice.
  33. The past ten years of digital film are going to vanish.  We do little to preserve not just the works, but also the process and documents behind them.  Digital is not a stable medium.  We have a migration and storage issue in terms of keeping access up to date.  Those films that currently exist in digital format only, won’t stand the test of time.  Film remains a better format for archival purposes.  We need to take action soon if we are not going to see our recent culture get out of reach.
  34. We don’t encourage advocacy around the issues that affect us.  How many film industry professionals could rattle off the top ten government policies that affect their trade?  Why don’t our various support organizations, unions, guilds, and leaders list issues and actions at the top of their website?  Are we all so afraid or so unaware?
  35. Okay, it’s a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face, but it seems to me that film industry folk spend less time going to the movies (and I mean seeing films in the theaters) than the average bear.  Going to the movies should be viewed as a political act.  Support the culture you want with your dollars.
  36. Most of the bootlegging that I encounter comes from within the industry itself.  I recently heard of a manager who asked the studio execs and his Facebook friends to send in the bootlegs of his Sundance prize winning client’s film — and he got over 70 back; they all unfortunately were an early cut of the film too.  I admit I get a lot of free DVDs from agents & managers, and I admit I make dubs for my directors so they can see actors — but I have started to donate to crowdfunding campaigns to try to balance it out.  We have to come up with a uniform practice and commitment to avoid the Industry supported bootlegging.
  37. So few of us have determined what we love, not just in film, but also in the world in general.  The more we have defined our tastes, the more we strive to bring them into existence.  The more we know what we want, the greater our defenses are against that in which we do not want to participate.  Where are the filmmakers who can list the things they think can lead us to make better films?  If more filmmakers, distributors, and executives conversed more publicly in both the art and the business, the bar for all of us would be lifted higher.
  38. We love to read, talk, and engage more about the business than we do about the art.  Some of this comes perhaps because we have more forums for the business than the aesthetics, but it is much harder to get a conversation going about creative issues than it is about financial.  I’m just saying…

This is my first co-post with The Huffington Post.  Please go to it here. Perhaps ALSO leave your comments there too.

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  • Frank
    Sorry I hadn't replied to this sooner... I forgot (thankfully) this whole argument for a while as I've been working on a new short film.

    Jon Raymond -

    I disqualify docs because docs are doing their job and doing it well. I don't see any problem in the market for a well-crafted doc with an interesting subject. Like I said, I think it’s the only healthy area of indies right now and I think a big reason is that when you make a doc, you’re dealing with the filmmaker’s perspective on an objective reality. It’s almost always inherently more interesting than watching some new filmmaker’s first baby steps towards CREATING an objective reality that they then overlay with their subjective viewpoint… jeez, I hope this makes sense.

    I don't like/dislike indie or Hollywood films, I like GOOD MOVIES. I didn't make a distinction, those who would say that one cannot put Avatar and the work of Jim Jarmusch in the same sentence made that distinction.

    And by the way, HARRY, if you don't think Avatar qualifies as art that means one thing - that YOU do not think it qualifies as art. That's the wonderful thing about all art... it's mostly subjective, isn't it? And I'm sorry, but many indies follow a formula as derivative as any Hollywood movie... it's not what your film is about (everything, really, has been done) but HOW IT IS ABOUT IT. I’m sorry I don’t know have the answer on how to make a commercial film with a built-in audience… if I had the answer to that, I’d be Steven Spielberg, wouldn’t I? And I doubt I’d be sharing my secret formula in a blog comments section. The distribution apparatus I described would allow GOOD films, my entire point, to find an audience. I think letting festivals do all the work and have all the power has hurt the perception of indies immeasurably. This isn’t a place where how to make a good movie is being discussed (the ONLY place for that, imho, are screenwriting blogs like Go Into the Story, Mystery Man, and Script Shadow), what’s being discussed here is how, assuming you have a good movie, do you get it out there.

    Back to Jon Raymond -

    I think the big problem here is that we're all taking tiny threads of this discussion and going off on a tangent about how we agree or disagree with each other on one singular point while at the same time completely (willfully?) misunderstanding the other person. The reason this post even exists is because it seems that festivals and distributors are not really helping out indie filmmakers as much as they could in finding an audience. I believe the main reason is because festivals now seem to serve the interests of the friends of the programmers, the pseudo-celebs willing to attend, sponsors, and whichever publicists contact them rather than doing the actual work of sifting through the submissions to find the best stuff (I know it’s subjective, but I think we’re hitting or have hit a tipping point where we can almost objectively say the cream isn’t always rising to the top… more on that in a bit.)

    Jon, I think we're in agreement here on nearly every point, it just APPEARS that we're disagreeing. Again, I don’t (or didn’t mean to) make the distinction between Hollywood and indie films, only between good and bad movies. Hollywood turns out a lot of crap, but it's well marketed crap and it has a built-in awareness because of that. The director of some pos, by-the-numbers Hollywood rom-com doesn’t really have to wring his hands worrying whether or not people will be made aware of it… nowhere near as much as an indie filmmaker does, anyway. I STRONGLY believe that because the cream might not be rising to the top within the indie world (i.e., the best stuff gets in front of eyeballs), we have a major problem with finding a wider audience that would, in turn, allow us to do what we all want to do… make more films. That audience existed 10+ years ago but has largely been erased by factors we could argue over ‘til the cows come home. I think part of the reason is poor festival selection practices and, like I said in other posts, the average moviegoer who may have been interested in indies almost as a genre unto itself has taken a chance on one too many films that didn’t live up to the festival laurels on the DVD cover. Because many of us believe the cream is not rising to the top, what Ted seems to suggest we do and what I know Zak does in practice is take their case for their filmmaking talent as directly to the audience as possible. In other words, cut out the middleman and let the people decide for themselves.

    The problem here, and what many have correctly pointed out, is that it turns a filmmaker (and I know, because I tried to do this myself) into a marketing machine. Personally, I believe it hurts the work... this is where the ‘artist first/marketing-machine never’ argument comes in. For some, it seems they have boundless energy to both craft their film and sift through potential twitter followers, four-wall and tour their movie, and maintain a blog. Like I said, I’m so exhausted by the process of making the film that all of that other stuff really turns me off by the time I’m at the point where I know I’m SUPPOSED to be doing it. And then it seems that I’m really supposed to be doing both concurrently. Hats off to anyone who can maintain that dichotomy with their sanity intact.

    Jon – what you said about youtube is DEAD ON and it’s what I decided to do. You see, I MADE one of those navel-gazing indie features that I so seem to loathe, but I think I made it honestly and was objective about the characters and their predicament and I know, even in hindsight and having moved on, that my film deserved a better shot on the festival circuit than it received. All of my research since moving on points to a festival system that thrives a lot more on cronyism and the exact kind of indie marketing prescribed on this blog than on picking films that are actually good. These days, if you don’t have a publicist, a blog, 50+ social networking profiles/fan pages, and some money set aside for marketing your film to the festival programmers, you have almost no shot of getting into a fest like SXSW, Cinevegas, or Sundance. For what happened to me after all the rejections, I’m almost glad I didn’t wind up on the festival circuit during that time.

    I decided, as a result of that whole debacle, to make a science fiction web series that I put on youtube and other video sharing sites with no marketing whatsoever. I just relied on entertainment value and core concept. 75,000 views later, the concept has been optioned by a medium sized production company and we’re putting together a sizzle reel to pitch it to the networks as a television show. $500, 20 minutes of material, and a youtube channel took me further than my $18,000 indie feature ever did or, sad to say, ever could, regardless of quality.

    So I side with those who say ‘artist first’, but I sadly think that where they’re wrong is in ever suggesting that the ‘first art’ of ‘artist first’ can be anything but a genre piece. While I believe this was true in the past, it is even MORE true now. A potential Scorsese today can very well be overlooked for far too long… to the point where he’d probably quit for not being the type that can schmooze and market their way to the Grand Jury prize at Sundance and thus be able to finance further pictures. Indeed, from my experience, it would seem that the type of person who is an artist to their core probably isn’t very good at marketing his or herself, especially not during the formative years.

    Again… Jon – I’ve seen all of those films, I even own Coppola’s ‘Dementia 13’. But besides being good movies, what do they all have in common? Yes, Tarantino was indie, Lucas was indie, even Spielberg made a ton of short films during his youth to get attention, but what does nearly every single filmmaker who has made a nice career for themselves have in common when it comes to their first few efforts that got them noticed? They all started out in horror, science fiction, or comedy… or some subset of other genres, like Nolan with film noir, and people like Scorsese and Coppola cut their teeth directing (yet retaining their voice) exploitive movies for Roger Corman. (Have to say it yet again, where is the Roger Corman of today, giving young filmmakers a chance to find their voice/style without worrying about distributing and marketing the film themselves?)

    I’m only saying this because I’d like to see an audience come back to independent films in general and because I’d like to see at least one filmmaker made something like a Texas Chainsaw Massacre, yet retain their rights and sell it exclusively through VOD or something and KEEP that fortune to then go and make whatever the hell they want. Of course, chances are, if someone were to make something of such high quality, the distributors would come knocking again and it’s likely all of this would be moot. In the case of finding distribution, like Paranormal Activity, the filmmaker might not even make any money, but they certainly would be able to get another film made and, possibly, make a living as a filmmaker.

    You see, if you, as an indie filmmaker, decide to make the greatest indie horror film ever made and you even PARTIALLY succeed, you won’t have to be a marketing expert. There is craft and art in trying to do something like that and it also subverts basically everything we’re being told about festivals, twitter, etc., because it is highly unlikely that a great horror film will be ignored. Then you can put all your effort into making the best film and far less effort into twitter followers, blogs, and marketing. One good clip on youtube would pull all of that weight and more.

    Lastly, I want to address Mark Lipsky’s assertion that at some vague point in the past, indies yoked themselves to ROI and Oscar consideration and filmmakers began worrying about making a living and from that point forward, indie film was dead.

    I know you said, “Don’t give up your day job” regarding true indie filmmakers, but I’m not sure I understand where you think the money comes from. So you are saying that before this magical demarcation point, there were indies who made their film not caring if there was an audience or if it made it’s money back? Then why even screen them? Can you provide examples? And Jarmusch is a bad one because doghouse nicely tore that one apart by placing Jarmusch firmly in the place from whence he came… making the New York, Warhol-ish, early 80’s art/celebrity scene… like doghouse said, a time when an enthusiastic New York Times review could guarantee some box office/notoriety (also true some ten years later with Clerks). Had he not had all of that, he wouldn’t have gotten to make another film… you might say that he didn’t think about it BEFORE he made his first feature, but I guarantee you have to think about it if you want to make another one. Besides that, films require others to help you make them great… music, cinematography, talented actors… while your hypothetical director may not give a shit about commerce or his film being seen, for that to be 100% true all the time for an indie film, it would also have to be true of every single person who makes an artistic contribution to said film. Do you think the people that help you achieve your vision also share this romantic notion of art for art’s sake and that they don’t say to themselves, “Yeah, but what are your plans for this movie? How will you get it out there and who is going to see it?” Good luck with that one when putting together a talented cast and crew. Also, do you think that ROI played zero part in Jarmusch casting people like Johnny Depp or Bill Murray in some of his films? I’m not debating the artistic merit of Jim Jarmusch, I’m simply saying that I need a lot more from Lipsky to understand what he’s talking about when he implies that true indies never worry about their film making its money back or getting it out there. Which ones and can you provide proof?

    Even if they don’t get into the nuts and bolts of marketing and distribution, I think anyone who wants to continue making films, indie or not, must worry about getting their film out there and having it make money so they can make more films… even if they still have to keep their day jobs. I think the ONLY problem we have right now is that it seems the normal indie channels through which an undeniably great film should find an audience have put barriers in place that seem to hinder such a thing rather than help it. I’ve seen enough over the last few years to lose all trust and faith in the indie gate keepers. As a filmmaker myself, it’s hard to know who your friends are, and it’s why I advocate doing good genre work, because when you do it undeniably well, like Neill Blomkamp with his sci-fi short films, it puts you on an even playing field and sometimes even vaults you to places you never thought you could reach… WITHOUT killing yourself over festivals and indie marketing schemes.

    The only thing I 100% agree with Mark Lipsky on is that the word ‘indie’ has lost all value for audiences. But I think that all comes down to the quality of the work and for you to begrudge filmmaker’s like Zak for trying to find a new paradigm while also talking up your own digital distribution system is a bit disingenuous. There’s an inherent contradiction there. However, like you’ve said… rather than making lists, you are doing something about the situation and I have to give credit where it’s due.

  • Alina Szpak
    All pretty accurate, but few things - summits exist, this year I attended Future of the Film conference and big panel about the same at Produced by Conference. I am also very sceptical abou longevity of film v digital. About international sales I agree: we have problem: for many years world buyers were buing every crap produced in America for relatively big bucks to feed their tv needs. Now with digital technology they discovered that they can produce this crap themselves. And they have national and international goverment funds for their movies, free money! There are limited markets and price falling from let say 10,000 K to 300 dollars per territory is a killer for independent industry. Finding public in US is relatively easy for specific genre movies but sadly the great american drama is dying!
    Alina Szpak
  • nick
    read the first 10 and could disprove all of them soooooo..... yea people, don't buy into this. it isn't all accurate.

    i just graduated from film school at penn state. i am now a poor college grad with $20 to my name. however, through online sites (ie Facebook/Twitter/Production Hub, etc) I have landed 3 paying jobs in NYC that I can do either from home, or I will travel to NYC on their money and get housing through their money. this makes it seem impossible to get into the industry which is a lie.

    by the way, look at the director who won the best picture oscar this past year....spoiler alert NOT A WHITE MALE.
  • Tony Naumovski
    Mr. Hope, My name is Tony Naumovski, a New York based actor. I am a close friend and a colleague of Alrick Brown. It has been a week since I read your 'manifesto' so to speak and still each day your words resonate in me and shake my being more and more, provoke me and inspire me, to fight and stand even stronger in what I believe in, which I think that we share a very similar vision and opinion on what is going on in the film and theater actually world today. I truly hope and believe that a lot more people will read this and will stop for a second, and question themselves and their values for a moment and reconsider their responsibilities toward the society. Both Filmmakers and film supporters, cause we are and should be ONE. Even more so this 'manifesto' is a invitation to the roots of great art which can civilize humanity and should be published in many different magazines, books and studies. Bertold Brecht once said 'In the future they won't say the times were dark, they will rather ask why were their poets silent'. And so we should NEVER be silent otherwise we loose the essence and power of true art and the need of it. With great hopes for the future because we are IT and responsible for it. Thank you Mr. Hope for the hope...
    Together we are more !!!
  • Thanks Tony. I love that BB quote. I do think speaking up is the first step for most, and it is always a beautiful sound.
  • Emma Gallagher
    I think the main reason why the film industy is failing because you can now download movies off the internet for free, everyone knows its illegal but who really cares? I mean people are seeing that they don't have to go to the hassel any more of driving down town to the cinema and pay more for popcorn than the tickets I mean why bothar when you can sit in the comfort of your own living room? To encourage people to come to the cinema more I don't know? what would make me get up and go apart from the latest block buster?
  • I think Emma that if people knew that filmmakers outside of Hollywood can not support themselves or that generally the only off-Hollywood American work can come from the wealthy, they might think twice before downloading illegally (as opposed to those that choose to give copies of their work away). I know that it is a much more enjoyable experience to see films with others, but even in NYC -- America's greatest city for film viewing -- I found myself with little I wanted to see on this one of the greatest filmgoing weekends of the year. Some of this is about supply. Some of it is about the marketing, the presentation, and the appreciation apparatus.
  • blainecreates
    The company I work for MovieSet.com is providing every filmmaker a free marketing platform and production toolkit to help them maximize the promotional power of their projects entire life cycle.
    'Production is the new Promotion' and there certainly are no financial barriers to using tools like ours.
  • Sustainable investor class? Building audiences? Owning audiences?

    All good ideas. I suggest we go back to the drawing board and rethink the whole idea of film and narrative from the ground up. Go for a new form of film. One that happens inside your mind instead of hyped up and splashed all over a screen.

    That's what I'm going for. Films you can read. Starting with a biopic on the legendary Hollywood studio super producer Don Simpson who partnered with Jerry Bruckheimer and, well, killed cinema.

    Click http://boscutti.com to see what I mean.
  • Frank,
    You talk about a vetting process and the failure of festivals. This is the indie filmmaker challenge. Make a film that is compelling enough so that when someone see it on YouTube or IMDb, word will spread like wildfire. The internet has afforded filmmakers the most universal democratic means of discovery and distribution. But only the cream can rise. I believe that if filmmakers make truly great films they will be seen. The problem isn't the distribution apparatus. The problem is to actually make great films.

    Of course if you suck and want to make money at it like Hollywood does, then you're fucked.
  • Frank,
    I both agree and disagree with much of what you say, and so do you. Conveniently to your argument docs are somehow disqualified from being indie or art. How does that work? Because that's your self contradiction. You actually like indie films.

    I don't understand the delineation between Hollywood/Studio films and indie/art films. I think people like you just have a grudge or something. You say most indie/art films are crap. But most Hollywood/studio films are crap. 50% never break even, and way more than that suck fucking ass. How many of the 300 to 400 films coming out f the studios are worth wiping your ass with?

    So the point is moot. Of all films made, most are crap. So there is no point in the animosity toward art or studio filmmakers. But I think this website is geared toward filmmakers with little resources who for that reason are considered indie. But the first time they close a studio deal, they'll be Hollywood.

    Yeah, Lucas was indie. Seen THX1138? Was that artsy-fartsy crap? It won Lucas a hell of a future. Coppola was indie. Tarantino was indie. Successful indie films turn indie directors into Hollywood directors. So what happened to your delineation?

    Now you are completely missing a very important point, and you can only grasp this if you truly appreciate film culture. I can appreciate Stranger than Paradise, or In Between Days. But most people, like my wife, prefer to watch 2 and a Half Men with it's fucking laugh track (I don't care if it's filmed live - it's still a fucking laugh track). However, those of us with appreciation for film can see the value in THX1138 or Stranger than Paradise. We can see the talent there that needs a shot. And that is really what I think Ted and others are talking about, giving DESERVING artists a shot.
  • John Matthews
    This was a great list - but I wish there was a single key to all these problems. The future survival of everything I care about (indepedent film, public media, real journalism) seems to hinge on one very complicated thing; finding a way to make digital culture and community into a quantifiable thing that attracts investment and sustains an income stream. Help us Ted - Where do we begin ?
  • I wish there was a single key also for all these problems, but the truth is, there isn't and never will be. That's true for most problems and challenges worth solving. But if anything is the hinge on which all "keys" might stem from, it's the internet I think. If you're concerned with investments, look at this recent project for hope: http://kck.st/9QC2zk

    It is becoming less and less necessary and less and less likely that one key or one company or organization will solve these issues, it's us that will. Making very small steps that all-together add up to something amazing. It's hard to tell being in the middle of it all - but in 3 years time, looking back will reveal how fast everything has been changing.
  • After 40 days in the Wilderness, we have 40 perspectives on the PostFilm future

    Dr Ian McCormick
  • I think it's clear that Ted Hope is dedicated to fostering discussion and new thought/answers. It's great to see.

    Zak, every time I come across one of your posts on any site, I'm inspired by how passionate you are. Keep it up!

    Brian Newman, wonderful clear-headed response as well.

    A few disconnected thoughts, many of which have been stated in more articulate ways:

    I came across this John Ford quote from 1936 this week while reading John Ford Interviews, "Eventually...we'll go out to a Maine fishing port or to an Iowa hill and employ ordinary American citizens we find living and working there, and we'll plan a little story, and we'll photograph the scene and the people. That's all pictures should do anyway, and it'll be enough." I thought about how this seems to be the core impulse so many of us have (it's the impulse we all have as kids - to round up the neighborhood and put on a show) and yet, for 70 years, one thing or another has kept us from finding a model to accomplish it in a cost-effective way.

    I then read Steven Spielberg Interviews, also from the Conversations With Filmmakers series, and was struck at how many of his choices after 1982 were based on criticism he had received that his work was not personal, artistic, or mature - producing films that were broad and less personal. Looking back, I feel his earliest films, particularly ET, are the most intimate and artistic and closes to who he is as a maker. The fact that they are commercially viable should not devalue that. (ET on an indie forum - gasp! : ) Point being, our most personal inner feelings can connect with an audience - marketing or commercial appeal does not take away from that. Do it with integrity.

    I had a chance to walk through the Louvre and d'Orsay this week and was reminded that most great artists had investors, whether it be the church, the rich, or a brother, and many times these movements were a collection of friends who managed to brand themselves.

    Language trips us up. Clearly, "independent" is many things; sometimes, oftentimes, dependent on financing, audiences, distributors, reviews. Any art or business is. The marketplace is different than it had been 20 years ago. 5 years ago. So are the tools for making, the definitions of what a film is. We have many freedoms now to make work in an independent space for very little money, to be as challenging or inviting to an audience as we please. But once it comes time to find an audience, we're co dependent, and have to think of the needs of those involved with us. If a theater will take a chance on me, I don't want them to lose money. If CiniFist books my film, I want their run to be successful. Once I've made the film I'm proud of, I'm happy to do whatever I can to market it (although, clearly "once I've made the film" is too late... : )

    I'm rambling...there are no answers. I think we just need to be: 1. responsible in how we make our films (what we spend and what we expect) 2. Open minded because there is no correct way to make, market, or release.
  • Harry
    " I don’t want to complain endlessly without offering solutions, so here’s what I think will work, assuming you have movies that are very well made, well acted, and have a built-in audience: " So sayeth Frank.

    And what exactly does it take to have a a well made, well acted movie with a "built in audience"? Isn't that exactly what's being discussed here? All you're saying is that if you make a commercially successful, it will be a commercially successful movie. Not very helpful.

    And you don't need an elitist attitude to dispute the merits of Avatar as art, to the degree the question is meaningful at all for mass-market entertainment. If "art" means a film which is mature and accomplished as narrative art, then Avatar is not art. If it has other interests for you, or can overlook the triteness and lack of originality of the scenario, then maybe it's art - for you. Not a productive discussion in any case.

    There is no "solution" because there's no single problem. It really comes down to what opportunities exist in a particular society at a particular time. If you love Sundance and Hollywood, then all your needs are satisfied. If you don't, you're in trouble.
  • "Official acceptance is the one unmistakable symptom that salvation is beaten again, and is the one surest sign of fatal misunderstanding, and is the kiss of Judas."

    James Agee, Let Us Now Praise Famous Men - 1941
  • Frank
    I think that attitude, that Avatar is not art, basically sums up the entire problem within the indie community right now. There is a sense of entitlement that there should be an audience for someone filming their nasal drippings and that only stuff that 'challenges perceptions' is worthy of being called art. That is such a load of horse shit and it's an excuse to not actually learn the language of cinema. It's lazy and it's akin to thinking in the academic community that would put basically anyone from the last five years with a pulse and a pen above Shakespeare or Melville because they're 'like... the establishment... man.' It's actually so ANTI-art, it borders on what Michael Herr and people like Harold Bloom call 'art phobia'. Only in the inverse, through-the-looking glass world of indie film...

    Anyone saying an artist does not make their art for an audience is also full of shit. Have you ever made a film? Do you not want it to make sense and get a certain point-of-view across? If you're making it for exactly no one, then how do you know whether or not what you're doing 'works'? If that doesn't matter, then why not just film anything that comes in front of the lens over a period of 10 hours and proclaim that it has made your point? Even if you make it to express something and that's it, you still want SOME people to get what you're expressing, and not have it be totally inaccessible. And if you want totally inaccessible, then fine, but you're still making a decision based on the audience. Every filmmaker with every decision, struggles and has to decide how far they're willing to go to get a point across and there's a line where you say, "Ok, some people will get this, most won't, and that's ok." But it's still for an audience.

    This attitude against making something entertaining is sickening, destructive, and gives festivals and sites like this an element of passive aggressive self-loathing, a belief that anything below-the-radar or foreign is automatically superior, even if it's total sensationalist dreck like Serbian Film (although, at least they went for the gut.) And the rest of the world does not view it that way either... only in America do we have this dishonest and trite sense of what is or is not art. Remember it took the French to let us know that John Ford, Howard Hawks, and Alfred Hitchcock were, indeed, artists of the highest caliber.

    I don't know... I never come away from these discussions feeling good. And Jon, I've seen every single one of those films... first of all, I do not include docs, which have blossomed in the absence of good indie narrative filmmaking. They're also entertaining as hell because they're about convincing an audience and always made to get a point across... to an audience. And those aren't very good examples for this argument of, "Where's the beef in micro-budget filmmaking?" Anvil is a doc, but it also played on VH1 and, if memory serves, that's exactly where I saw it. "Must Read After My Death" is also a doc (which, again, I exempt from what I'm saying), and 'The Poker House' was made by a semi-successful actress after a long and varied career... in Hollywood.

    However, I do agree that out of your figure of 7,000 films submitted to Sundance, there's a lot of stuff that probably gets tossed aside that might have something worthy going on... but until even one of them breaks through the noise on a site like indieflix or elsewhere and starts being talked about beyond the sphere of other filmmakers, how can we say for sure? It's not like it hasn't been noticed elsewhere... here's an article from the Huff Post entitled, "What's Killing Independent Film?" - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marshall-fine/whats-killing-independent_b_180683.html

    And the comments section there is far more illuminating than the article itself.

    The only thing I have left to say is that I agree that even when the films are amazing (like Winter's Bone), the apparatus that existed 10 years ago to get them in front of a wide audience is gone... and the audience also has an attitude now, after picking up one too many dvd's covered in festival laurels... well, I can illustrate with a comment from that Huff Post article - "There are good independent films, but they are out numbered 10 to 1 to bad ones." Or here's another - "Just because your film is not from Hollywood doesn't give it an automatic seal of approval. Too often filmmakers of little or no talent take this route to say "oh, it's not a Hollywood film", as if that immunes them from criticism. A crap movie is a crap movie, regardless of its budget and/or its distribution pattern."

    I don't want to complain endlessly without offering solutions, so here's what I think will work, assuming you have movies that are very well made, well acted, and have a built-in audience: To me, the future of indies is in filmmakers, regardless of background/connections, having direct access to an Ondemand channel or 'hub' that's available on all Ondemand systems (not just a few in some remote region of the country). One or two places need to be put on the shoulders of all indie filmmakers who would say, "This is where you go for the best of what we do." And the films need to be vetted, somehow, by the audience itself... so maybe a selection process of what will be featured through a website or youtube channel and a voting process based on trailers and scenes. Then a very simple process for following a particular filmmaker (push button twitter, facebook, etc.) and getting updates on their progress for future work. The biggest problem, to me, is the selection process at festivals... there's as much if not more nepotism there now than Hollywood and I truly believe good films are getting passed over in favor of lesser works that happen to afford a good publicist. Zak, you yourself provided that piece of illuminating information in your article on SXSW panels, noting that in every successful case, the filmmaker had a publicist.

    That's not a level playing field in my book. To me, that's worse than Hollywood, because at least there they're going purely on whether or not something is marketable... there's a place to put your feet on firm ground. The festival world is upside down and you very often have people who shouldn't be selecting films deciding the future of indies... I don't doubt that some are on a power-trip, and the whole indie world suffers because very often, this means indies aren't putting their best foot forward for the general audience. So the true bottleneck and the area that needs the most work is the vetting process by which the best gets out there to a more general audience. That's where, imho, things need serious fixing. We can't throw up every movie that just looks good or has decent acting... they need to be the best of the best, so that you establish a brand that people want to come back to. And if you make the audience feel like they have some say in what gets out there, then they can't blame the channel itself if a few clunkers get through. Also, any indie channel should feature a design that doesn't make it feel like a club regular people couldn't get into... in other words, the way I feel when I turn on IFC or Sundance. Everything about it is off-putting and stomach churning... I don't really believe they have indies best interests at heart, I think they're more about some phony vibe of erudition and artistic sensitivity, rather than serving up good content. I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but nepotism and being a well-dressed hipster constantly surrounded by hot girls (I mean come on... look at the red carpet photos at festivals from the Clerks days vs. now) will only get you so far in Hollywood without genuine filmmaking talent (the ticket buyers make sure of that), but it'll get you to the very top of the indie world. That, more than anything, needs to end.
  • I know I'm among the nutty. I blame the prohibition which left me with little hope of getting clean drugs as a youth.

    That aside, if you're willing, some of these folks have some good points.

    The U.S. is one of the only industrialized nations not to have a national film board that funds films. Our NEA is definitely underfunded.

    The point of master works of art not finding an audience.

    Absolutely true. It is rare that any great artist is noticed within her/his lifetime. Great art celebrates, deconstructs, and challenges the audience and dominant paradigms. Everyone says that film is about the story - if you have a great story then the film will be great. That already presumes a lot of limitations. Who will challenge this limitation? An experimental filmmaker. How many people in our country have been to see an experimental film?

    Almost exclusively, the further a film moves away from 'film as art' the more popular it is. Why? Because people, by and large, want to be entertained. They don't want their perceptions challenged. Why was AVATAR successful? Because it played to people's expectations. Was there a single moment when you said, "Oh, they did not just do that!?!? That's so wrong!" Was there a plot twist that made you scratch your head? Was even the casting unexpected?

    That's not to say that a film like that is not without art. One of my favorite films to watch is Chronicles of Riddick. The acting is pretty bad. The script and direction is mediocre, but the Art Direction is incredible. The costumes, the sets, the matte paintings are gorgeous, but like AVATAR, this film is not art.
  • doghouse
    All this is really a lot simpler than it seems.

    Who here actually likes American independent film today? I mean the movies themselves, not the supposed opportunities of the medium or the festival scene or the dreams of beach houses. Does anyone really get up in the morning, invigorated on the expectation of seeing yet another American independent film?

    Judging from the box office, virtually nobody unconnected with the films likes them much -- at least, not enough to seek them out. And that dissatisfaction runs the whole range: from mumblecore movies made for few thousand dollars, to the Sundance genre vehicles dreaming of 7 figure acquisition deals.

    Meanwhile, a film like "The Secret in their Eyes", in Spanish, from a not very well-known Argentine director, and with no stars recognizable outside Argentina, is in release at 3 Manhattan art-house cinemas, and has grossed over $20 million worldwide so far. And while this film certainly has genre and commercial elements, so do a lot of American independents which don't manage to gross 20 cents. So why can they do it, and we can't?

    I could try to answer, but really, it's Ted's blog, and he's the expert.

    And if we can't answer this one, what can we answer?
  • Frank says, “'Where’s the beef?' In other words, where are all of these great films that everyone is ignoring?"

    Here you go:

    There are 7000 films submitted to Sundance like every year dude. I'd wager my paycheck that you can find as many films as make to the cineplex (in those 7000) that are ten times better. Have you seen "Must read after my Death" ? How about "Anvil: The Story of Anvil". Lori Petty's "The Poker House." The titles go on and on. Where have you been? Hollywood maybe?
  • Doghouse, I think you may need some help, despite making some good points. Perhaps you're a "Victim of Hollywood" (quoted because it sounds like s good film title).

    "Holding up Jim Jarmusch as a great artist for the ages is" NOT "simply ludicrous." Stranger than Paradise (in my view) is probably one of the most perfect films ever made. It harmoniously encompasses music, acting, visual beauty, dialog, story, plot and on and on with all the many elements that go into dramatic film. They all work so well together like an orchestrated Mozart composition. That is truly what real filmmaking is and what we should strive for.

    But maybe you have a problem with Screamin' Jay Hawkins. That's just taste, and you have none.

    Classical music, I think, is nearly a perfect art form. It has had hundreds of years to evolve into rock and whatnot. But film has yet to find that ageless success, or will people hundreds of years form now watch Jarmusch and revere him as a great artist? I'm sure there were a few "doghouses" who put down Mozart as well.
  • Vincent, I think there's a gray area where artists do consider "an" audience if only that audience is themselves.
  • Psst ;) Jon, can you use the reply button when you're replying to someone's comment. I'm enjoying these comments very much between you and other people. But, ha, I'm having a hell of a time following it in the right order. Ok, back to reading.
  • Zac, thanks again. I enjoy your posts. I think my take is really the same as yours. But somehow every time someone says film is an art there's this crazy line in the sand that people keep drawing with business on one side and art on the other, and so some of us keep coming out to defend the art.

    Jim Jarmusch had to nurture investor relationships? Of course, and that's all fine with me. If I had made Permanent Vacation which got me enough notoriety to go on with Stranger than Paradise I'd be a nurturing fool. But it wouldn't compromise my ART.

    The thing about Jim Jarmusch is that he did it (and continues to do it) on his terms. Art terms. You don't hear him talking about audience building or social networks as job one, or even any job at all. It appears he has his audience and has had it ever since Paradise. But he put the art first. And that is not a given. If it were I think we'd see a lot more successes. Shouldn't the dialog we have be about the ART, and not the marketing? 7000 filmmakers do not have enough ART to sustain themselves even if they do find an audience.

    Even Arin Crumley hasn't been heard from (film-wise) since Four Eyed Monsters, and I think it has to do with the art, not the marketing. Four Eyed Monsters is damned hard act to follow as was Stranger than Paradise. But Jim Jarmusch has done that. Perhaps we should study him.

    Four Eyed Monsters vlog marketing was to me part of the art form. The vlogs are shorts films. Some say they are better than the feature. But they did them on their own terms just like Jarmusch. Art was the first consideration. Arin Crumley and "artist" Susan Buice made the vlogs and the film all as part of their overall project. They pioneered this whole concept we now all talk about. If that's what you have in mind by incorporating marketing, I'm all for it.

    I don't fault Tarantino for anything he does.
  • Vincent
    Love the Ice Storm.

    An Artist NEVER considers their audience or commerce when creating. Full stop.

    An Artist is NOT an entertainer.

    The Dardenne Brothers and James Cameron both make films, but only one of these creators is an Artist (hint, no boat).

    There's nothing wrong with Entertainers, but we need both.

    We need Artists, and we need Producers to support them. These Artists, if we are to keep them in this state, will NEVER concern themselves with commerce or an audience.

    This is not what Artists do.
  • This is what some Artists do.
  • There are just so many things to say in response to all of these both good and ridiculous comments that I don’t know where to begin. I’ve agonized (a little, it’s just bloggin’ after all) about a response, but have been torn. To be quite frank, I’m friendly with Ted, so I am biased, but while I think his recent record of sparking dialogue - contrary to Mark’s point, not just questions but also answers - speaks for itself and needs no defense, the vitriol that is being so personally directed here is so over the top that it also makes responding a very difficult task. Mark, I can only imagine the multiple reasons Ted hasn’t responded to you personally or taken up your call for dialogue, because as an outside observer, it’s hard for anyone to respond or engage you in dialogue because you are so clearly not interested in it. The entire conversation - not Ted’s questions, mind you, but your responses - make me remember Sayre’s Law. For those of you not knowing it, it states - “In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the stakes at issue....this is why academic politics are so bitter.”

    Can’t we start with the premise that if you bother to read Ted’s blog you are already thinking about the overall biz, not just the art? This dichotomy is false - and always has been (as are pretty much all dichotomies). Truly independent film has always been a mixture of both art and business. Sure, some filmmakers think less about the business side and rely on their producers to do that, but most have to think about the audience that might exist for their films to some extent, and most must figure out how to keep making their art, so they try to make films that can have some modicum of success financially so that they can raise money to make another film. No one is claiming that filmmakers should just market test their films and focus solely on ROI, no one is saying you should sell out or any of that other garbage. Those of us talking about all this stuff are saying that all the different ways that used to work for indie films - across the spectrum from truly indie to whatever other term you want to use to represent Indie-wood films - aren’t working so well anymore, and haven’t been working for quite some time. We have lots of tools at our disposal now - many of which are just more knowledge - and we can possibly work together to build a better system for all artists. You may not all agree on which films should get made, how they should be made, what’s art, etc. but perhaps by asking questions, suggesting answers, trying some new things, we can all get to a better place than where we are now (or have been for some time).

    It’s perfectly fine to argue over all this stuff, but for me, I’ll lob my complaints and my jeers at those people who are causing problems, not the ones trying to solve them. Debates like this are good for one thing though - it helps you decide who you want to bother working with in solving the problems in the future and who is better left alone!
  • Ted,
    That's about the most surgically-precise and well-stated analysis of the current film environment that I've read in a very long time. I especially like your point about sustainability... both in economic terms AND in very physical ones (your note about digital films ties into an article I wrote in which I joked -- only partly -- that one big solar flare would erase our civilization.)

    Also, your comment "it is much harder to get a conversation going about creative issues than it is about financial" is right on the money... no pun intended.


    I'd like to single out a few others for comment:

    6 - "Films can be a platform to launch many different products and enterprises, some of which can also enhance the experience and build the community."

    You said it! I foresee a networking across multiple genres and venues. Sort of like a digital representation of the lone nomadic tribes coming together into an interdependent society. Could not agree more.


    8. We ignore film’s most unique attribute. As demonstrated by how little of people’s online time is spent watching content (30%), we know that people want connectivity & community more than anything else. There used to be film societies... Film forces us to feel, to think, to engage — let’s not ignore that.

    Nothing to add to that, other than to nod my agreement.


    15. Why can’t our Industry develop more stars? The talented actors exist, but they don’t have “value”. Why is it that we don’t have more serious actors who are worth something financially?

    You know Ted, I suspect (however whimsically) that if we can address #8 on your list, a lot of other werewolves will fall to that same silver bullet. I see much of the modern audience as utterly uncritical when it comes to film -- they will gaze upon a film like Into The Wild much as they will upon the Clash of the Titans remake. If we encourage the development of a film community once more, I believe the industry itself will be nudged away from the Top 10 Party List and into a more diverse culture.

    35. Okay, it’s a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face, but it seems to me that film industry folk spend less time going to the movies (and I mean seeing films in the theaters) than the average bear. Going to the movies should be viewed as a political act. Support the culture you want with your dollars.

    I'm going to end there, because I have made this same point time and again.

    Thank you for your post!

    Brian
  • Frank
    All art house talk again... anyone care to explain why indies can no longer combine art and genre? Does anyone realize that it took a lot of cheesy, B-level biker pictures to get to Easy Rider? Why don't we follow the Corman model a bit more? Actually, in other parts of the world they already seem to be with films like Human Centipede... an exploitation movie if there ever was one... and it will probably make a fortune. I don't know the budget, but judging from the trailer, it could have been made for under $25k with the right director.

    You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette... filmmaking is expensive (most of the time) and I honestly cannot believe that nobody has pulled together all of this tech to create a brand name entity that puts out exploitive pictures with one or two 'gems' thrown in. Hell, once in a while, the 'exploitive' pictures would turn out to be art if you don't MAKE the directors turn them into straight-to-DVD looking crapfests. I just don't understand this mentality where it seems to be all-or-nothing... we have to be able to make whatever floats across the transom of our minds AND have it find an audience, AND have it be successful financially AND be able to make the next movie. I hate to tell you this, but even the big boys are only as good as their last movie.

    This is a good discussion but after a while, you have to remove yourself and as an audience member go, "Where's the beef?" In other words, where are all of these great films that everyone is ignoring? I can see where maybe a few fall through the cracks at the big festivals (didn't Paranormal Activity?), as they ignorantly continue down a path towards irrelevance (lol, will there eventually be a festival bail-out?), but year after year now it seems that whatever is hyped up on the fest circuit turns out to be a lot of hot air to anyone who is less than totally forgiving with how they spend 80-90 minutes of their time. I remember when you KNEW the thing had to be good to get that far, but it's not like that anymore. I think the audience, taking a chance on too many duds with festival laurels on the DVD cover, got burned one too many times and now we're seeing the results.

    I hate to keep banging on the same films, but 'Primer' is a perfect example of a movie that lived up to the hype... and that's the last one I remember doing that. Filmmakers suffer from hype and a lot of this marketing stuff is just that, learning how to hype and 'brand' yourself up. That's why, again, I think micro-testing your film and knowing when to blow your load and when to put the thing on a shelf and wait until you're finished with the next masterpiece is as important as making the best film possible. That takes a lot of guts and a truly removed sense of your film, which is extremely difficult and sometimes only possible with the passage of time.

    It may be a given that the film has to be great, but I think it's often lost in the forest of this discussion. All this talk over the last few years and I have yet to see something worth staking your credibility on by raving about and recommending to all your friends. Something I can remember doing with most of the break-outs prior to 4 or 5 years ago (coincidentally, about the time the HVX and HD in general became available?)
  • I loved Primer. I saw it at the NuArt and spoke with Shane Caruth afterward. I loved how he never thought to do more than one take of each scene, because of his pure passion to make the film. How sad that he has never been heard from since. After winning the Sloan Award at Sundance and having a big time agent for a short while, he just disappeared. Sustainability is critical to Artists. We are not five year olds that need to be taken care of, we need to learn how to take care of ourselves.
  • doghouse
    One reason "art" isn't much talked about in the movie business, outside the usual self-congratulatory ceremonies (Oscars, Spirit Awards, etc.) is that the talk tends to be useless, as this discussion is beginning to demonstrate.

    Can we state the obvious? In the universe of J.S. Bach, Rembrandt and Homer, holding up Jim Jarmusch as a great artist for the ages is simply ludicrous. And as the photo on Mark Lipsky's blog should have indicated to the parties to this dispute, Jim Jarmusch was not working alone. Among other advantages, I believe he had the material assistance of one Wim Wenders (among other things, I believe Wenders donated the film stock), who was already famous at that point. And "Stranger Than Paradise" featured downtown celebrities, one whom composed an interesting score for the film (no small advantage). Most crucial of all, "Stranger Than Paradise" emerged at a time when the off-Hollywood approach of his film was still a novelty, and when an enthusiastic New York Times review could guarantee a substantial box-office.

    You could say that the seeds of destruction were already there, in 1984: the hipster/celebrity angle, courting the press, emerging from a circle of wealth and fame, even if you're not wealthy and famous yourself, exploiting novelty, being cool, etc. All that success still wasn't enough to get American financing, but it did make for fame, and gave Jim Jarmusch extraordinary opportunities. And he nearly did make one great film ("Dead Man"), and might have succeeded if ... well, he didn't ask my opinion.

    But how many years did anyone really expect this game to last, once the novelty wore off, and the films were not longer marketable as curiosities whose interest resided in their failure to observe Hollywood conventions and the excitement attaching to the venture as a business and a social event?

    Note that the American version of alternative film is quite different from what has emerged in the rest of the world. We simply refuse, or are incapable of producing, an art-house tradition with values which surpass the fashions of the day. So our films are either fashionable or unfashionable. But rarely any good. The reasons for that have been stated in other posts; I won't repeat them.
  • Jon: Haha, okay I don't know who you're "yelling" at. No one is arguing that filmmakers should allow marketing to force compromises upon their work. No one is suggesting that compelling and innovative filmmaking isn't "Step 1". That's a given. It's essential and fundamental. But hey, let's not shy away from asking some questions about "Step 2". Then onward to some solutions. The issue I see is that in 2010, where ANYONE has the means to make a shitty motion picture, is: how do we open paths for discovery of the BEST films from our community so they have a fighting chance and don't wallow in obscurity?

    Let me ask you, did the Four Eyed Monsters podcasts compromise the feature-length film? They were made to capitalize on the release of the iPod's new video capabilities, afterall. To my mind they effectively expanded the narrative in an organic way and resulted in an innovative audience-building campaign conjured by (gasp) the artists, who weren't so precious as to dismiss the business of finding an audience. Now, no one is going to be able to replicate that, but should that stop someone like Cory McAbee from seeking new ways to thrive?

    Jon, all I'm saying is even Jim Jarmusch (obviously) had to nurture a relationship with investors so he could keep going back to them -- JVC financed Mystery Train (1989) and his next three consecutive pictures. I'm curious, do you fault him for that? Should Tarantino be faulted for sitting in on the editing of his trailers? Because I've been present as he guided the marketing of his film. Is it so incomprehensible that an artist could have the faculty to concern themselves with the narrative that exists outside the film they made? Should we all close our blogs? Even participating in this discussion has had an unexpected marketing benefit for me. I've had more people sign up on my "fan map" this week than in several weeks prior. That's great! As someone who is getting their hands dirty (damn filthy, really) in the art and business of making microbudget art house films, I don't understand the clamoring for a divide between the two. From my point of view, that would be handing all the power right back to the same people who've been profiting off our artistic labors for decades. A policy of indifference would truly be a betrayal of our creative process and it's potential to flourish.

    For reference: Stranger Than Paradise's budget is documented at approximately $100,000 and was financed by a German entity. I couldn't find more info than that.
  • Neil,
    No. You're wrong. A less than 50% success rate of profitable Hollywood films proves it (how many films are produced versus how many turn a profit). Film investors are not business people. They're gamblers.

    What you fail to see is that over 50% of films fail miserably because you put marketing before the art. You can't sell something that hasn't been made. You can't make something without the expertise to make it. You don't hire car salesmen to design cars do you?

    Get a fucking clue.
  • By the way Zac, I take issue. Stranger than Paradise is probably one of the greatest films ever, let alone JJ's best work. So yeah. Marketing concerns do comprise talent and art.
  • Zac, thanks for responding, I really appreciate the acknowledgment ( I was beginning to think I was a ghost or something that no one ever could see or hear - you may wish).

    You missed my main point dude, and that is that I'm talking about filmmakers in their formative years, because isn't that what we're all talking about here. Not filmmakers who've made a few million. Your article reference on Jim Jarmusch is dated 1999. He made Stranger than Paradise (his second feature which MADE him) in 1979 and released it in 84 (I think). Ergo, your point on him is well taken, but somewhat MOOT for unknown indie filmmakers none the less. At least he got some funding from somewhere circa his third and subsequent films. But how did he even get that far? That's the 64 trillion dollar question.

    In Paradise (damned I love that film) he HAD to use single long takes, and black and white film stock (there was no digital) and other cost cutting measures. And I don't know for certain, but I seriously doubt he had any investors on Paradise at all. Maybe an angle like Mark Lipsky or something.

    So, all I'm getting at is that ART COME BEFORE BUSINESS!

    It has to.

    Sorry to yell. But no one is fucking listening! Can you here me now? Please SOMEONE answer my questions:

    Does not ART come before BUSINESS? Is not film the business of selling the art that has to exist first? If so, should we not concentrate on the art first (maybe incorporate marketing concerns into it - you do write for an audience)?

    Now to your question, and it's a damned good one, and I'm no expert or industry experienced dude or anything of the sort. So, I have no clue why you'd ask me (except to pose the idea that my previous statement lacks some merit - it doesn't). But I do have a freaking brain.

    Why did Jim Jarmusch go to Japan?

    Ask him. I'd conjecture, as you seem to imply, that Hollywood can't place enough products (T&A, sex, action, violence) and whatever. Obviously. Maybe Japan actually respects good filmmakers. No one in the U.S. does (almost). So that's a given.

    So, yeah, once you've made a few million and have lots of Hollywood connections then Japan might hear about you, see you can turn some heads, and make some profit, and think you're fucking good.

    But look again at your article link and read what JJ says:

    "JJ: I'm really stubborn and I started out with an attitude that I was going to make films the way I and those people I chose to collaborate with want to make them and I've just stuck to that. I'm not seduced by money or the things that Hollywood tries to offer you, and in exchange you have to make the film the way some businessmen tell you to, and I just would not be good at that. So I have a system where I try to avoid having American money in my films, because with that comes a lot of strings attached and script meetings and casting consultations, and really I can't work that way because I don't tell the business people who finance the films how to run their business, so why should they tell me how to make a film? I've been very lucky to find people to collaborate with in that way. "

    It looks like even JJ makes everything Hollywood / American investor class all completely moot. He worries about the art and only the art.

    So you see art is all important. Marketing is the afterbirth.

    I knew I loved this guy for good reason. Thanks so much for the link.

    By the way, that article also illustrates how success can lead a filmmaker to compromise his art, worrying about useless details like what gun to get for Robert Mitchum (which I'd do too). You have to focus on the art. Otherwise you're lost.
  • Tracy Scott
    A few weeks ago there was an article in the NYT about a man that is trying to rank 10,000 films. He's a grocery clerk in Austin, TX.
    I've been wondering if this man would have insights on the current state of the film industry. I also wonder if you had this man read a script before shooting, what ideas he could come up with based on his vast knowledge from the seats. He obviously loves film for a reason.

    Maybe it's time to seek out and talk to more individual film lovers and ignore the market demographics. I say this because the most talented directors I have worked with were the film lovers that always hit the theatre on our days off.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/18/movies/18bourland.html?scp=1&sq=top%20100%20film%20list&st=cse
  • Frank
    I think that the thing not being talked about in ANY of these circles is that indies need to make better movies and should work in genre (comedy, sci-fi, and horror) WAY more than they do now. If an indie director can't even get the most base response out of me as an audience member by giving a good scare or making me laugh, then they probably don't have the filmmaking ability to get across their deepest, darkest thoughts about how horribly their family treated them growing up... or about the social condition in some far-off place... the usual festival stuff.

    As a matter of fact, a lot of indies who DO have that talent have turned to making high end short films (Panic Attack, The Raven, etc.) so that they can get in the game and make a living within the studio system. Is that really a bad thing? The Raven was made for $5,000, so extrapolating that the guy scraped together $50k and made a feature out of it with the same digital effects, look, etc., it's likely the film would have found distribution and his next film would be for Warner Brothers... another Neil Blomkamp. And none of that probably would have happened with any help from festivals or any of the stuff being discussed about 'broken models' and 'DIY', he'd only have to get a dvd to the top agents and people in the industry, then start negotiating his next film.

    The other thing you don't really mention is how insanely difficult it is to make a truly great film, and this requires a commitment to perfectionism and craft that one rarely sees in the indie world anymore. If you are going to have that kind of perfectionism and commitment to craft, I truly believe it is almost impossible to do the amount being required by DIY to 'get it out there' and 'find the audience' in today's indie landscape. As a matter of fact, I'd argue the opposite... concentrate on making the best film possible and make sure it MOVES AN AUDIENCE. What happened to indies with the democratizing of the tech and the proliferation of non-monetized distribution channels is that those channels have become flooded with product that most average moviegoers want nothing to do with... I don't care how many knick-knacks, t-shirts, twitter followers, etc. you sell or build up during pre-production, if the clockmaker can't make the clock work, nobody is giving up any time or dough in this increasingly competitive entertainment world. Why watch a boring indie when you can play apps on your ipad, watch a blu-ray of a good classic film on a $700 50" LCD, or... go for a walk?

    Getting back to doing good genre work as a starting point for an 'indie' career, if there is such a thing (who do the Duplass brothers have in their film coming out this summer again?), why do ALL of these DIY-related sites consistently dance around what they're really saying - that we should all be able to make 'art' and have it sell and find an audience regardless of how well that art is made. What is art in this context? I think the majority in this sphere currently only see it as the most navel-gazing stuff the indie world can conjure... isn't The Exorcist art? The Godfather? District 9? In the indie world, PRIMER, BLAIR WITCH, CLERKS, PI, AND FOLLOWING? Wait, what do they all have in common? Oh that's right... comedy, horror, science fiction, and film noir. They're also films that even Joe-schmoe who doesn't know Sundance from Cannes can come across while flipping through the channels and be entertained for 70-90 minutes. Make it and they will come... unfortunately (or fortunately, if you like paying your bills) so will Hollywood... even today, even in this economy... now more than ever. The truly humble thing is to admit that you should first learn your craft and that you CAN make a film that moves an audience, then you can drill down and make the niche stuff. You EARN that right, imho. The romantic notion of the misunderstood artist is BULLSHIT when it comes to filmmaking, because it's fucking expensive and if you want to quit your day job, you better know how to get your point across... that's craft.

    Incidentally, I think all of this DIY discussion is healthy, but far too much of it doesn't seem to get that until the films are better, nobody except for those who like stuff simply because they discovered it is going to care. There's way too much dancing around the fact that someone needs to make the next horror icon on a low budget... or the next gross-out comedy shot in B&W on a cell camera with brilliant dialogue... or pull together some low budget digital effects and do down-and-dirty sci-fi on a budget. But again, there's a disconnect, because anyone who does any of these things successfully will probably wind up vaulting over the studio wall.

    I DO think you can combine art and commerce if the budget is small enough and there's an audience, but I also have to agree that doing all of this bullshit to get a film out there is the ANTITHESIS of making art, no matter what kind of film it is.
  • 13 through 38...

    13. We don’t recognize that one of film’s greatest assets is its ability to generate data. Filmmakers and financiers should be insisting on owning the data their films generate. It is an incredibly valuable commodity. The VOD platform allows for tracking of where and when and who in terms of the business, yet this data is restricted to aggregators not creators. When you license something for a small fraction of its costs, shouldn’t you share in everything that it generates?

    That’s why it’s so vital to begin to take control of one’s own distribution through streaming. With Gigantic Digital, we provided total transparency on a 24/7 basis.

    14. We fail to utilize the two years from greenlight to release to market our film and build our audiences. Despite having the key economic indicators (i.e. stars & concept) in place at the time of greenlight, we underutilize that two year period when we could be sourcing fans, aggregating them and providing them with both the ramps and the bridges necessary to lead them to our work and then carry them to other new work.

    Absolutely.

    15. Why can’t our Industry develop more stars? The talented actors exist, but they don’t have “value”. Why is it that we don’t have more serious actors who are worth something financially? Isn’t it just about giving them the roles that help them build audiences? Why don’t we encourage more actors to take more risks in terms of the characters they portray? Audiences, filmmakers, financiers would all be better served by industywide initiatives to launch more talent. Say what you will about the studio system of old, but they were damn good at developing new talent.

    I realize you’re obsessed with the Hollywood mentality (movie stars and such) but are you saying there are no stars that began their careers in student films and independent films?

    16. We need a greater embrace of innovation and experimentation in terms of both business models and building communities. We keep doing things based on the status quo long after the practice has stopped being fruitful. People are so fearful of failing publicly that new approaches are shunned. This is a perception and PR problem as much as it is a structural one. Filmmakers should have the will to fail, and take risks (but be practical about it).

    Filmmakers *do* take risks. When’s the last time you took one Ted? Streamed any first-run ‘product’ lately? Do as I say, not as I do?

    17. We allow consumers to think content should be free but it is okay that the hardware they play it on is very very expensive. All the entertainment industries allow the hardware manufacturers to have policies that encourage such thinking. They get rich and it grows harder to be a creator by the day. People only want the devices because there is so much great stuff to play on it. Why is the balance of wealth so misguided here?

    *You* may allow consumers to think that. I never have. In fact, I’ve actively done the opposite with Gigantic Digital and with this blog. You’re showering us with pronouncements and questions but no answers. No solutions. Lists can be fun but dangerously unhelpful. What have *you* done, Ted, to change consumers’ thinking?

    18. We – neither the creators, audiences, or their representatives – don’t make a stink when aggregators get rich, and the content creators live on mere pittances. It’s not just the product but also the services that have flourished on the labor of the creators. Instead of growing angry we have been embracing those that gather and not those that grow. Again, we need to look at the inequity here and re-evaluate how the equity is dispersed.

    Here again, what *you* done to change the paradigm? Where’s your alternative method for distribution? Will you no longer allow your films to be licensed to the aggregators?

    19. We don’t insist that our artists are also entrepreneurs. We don’t encourage direct sales to the fans. We don’t focus on building mailing lists. This needs to be as much an accepted “best practice” as it needs to be part of every art school curriculum. We can’t keep producing artists and not prepare them to survive in the world. Passion without a plan to support it can only lead to exploitation.

    What a comical and pretentious thing to write. There are many –you, for instance – who have been promoting these concepts for at least a couple of years. Marc Rosenbush too. (Remember him?)

    20. We have failed to engage constructively with other industries that we should be aligned with, most obviously, the tech world. Why is only SXSW where film, music, and tech meet? Can’t we do better? The music industry has The Future Of Music summit, but there is nothing similar in the film world. The facilitators at the agencies rarely know who’s who in terms of web and tech designers.

    I tried desperately to engage you in this very conversation nearly two years ago and never heard from you again. Huh.

    21. Where is the simple site where you can get whatever you want whenever you want however you want it (other than what the bootleggers offer)? Why do we let the thieves beat us at our own game? Soon it will be too late to win the people back. The fact that the one place that comes close is ultimately in the business of selling hardware — and the industry seems okay with that — shows how we can’t see the forest for the trees.

    Good point. That’s why Gigantic Digital was launched in February 2009. It’s still out there Ted. I’m sure Brian Devine would be happy to premiere your next film online day and date with its bricks and mortar premiere. “Filmmakers should have the will to fail, and take risks (but be practical about it).” Are willing to take a risk?

    22. Where are the new curators? The ones with a national or international audience? Why have we not had a more concentrated industry/community wide effort to give a home to all the fired film critics? Is it that we are afraid of the bad, just like the studios are afraid of social media and film future exchanges because they are worried about negative buzz? We just need to make better movies and treat people well and then there is no negative to spread, right? Anyway, with such a plethora of great work being made we need to offer audiences better filters to sift through it. What’s up with our collective failure to deliver more Oprahs, individuals whose support will lead to action?

    I know you've heard of Rotten Tomatoes? Metacritic? MRQE.

    23. The majority in the film industry are essentially luddites and technophobes, barely aware of the tools we have available to us to enhance, economize, and spread our work. How can we teach our industry how to use what has already been invented (and then focus on everything else we need but don’t have yet).

    Questions, questions. Any answers?

    24. We don’t encourage (or demand) audience “builds” prior to production. Why shouldn’t every filmmaker or filmmaking team be required to have 5000 Fans prior to greenlight?

    Because that’s *your* job Ted. Their job is to make the movie.

    25. We know incredibly little about our audience or their behavior. We spend so much making our films without really knowing who our audiences are, why they want our product, how to reach them, or how they behave, or how they are changing. Does any other industry think so little and so late about their audience? Does any other industry do such little research into their audience? Shouldn’t we all be sharing what info we have?

    Yes. Please share whatever information you have.

    26. There is no major, visible, high-level “non-partisan” free-thought film industry think tank and/or incubator to consider new models, new approaches, and enhance audience appeal while inspiring both government and private investment, developing “best practices” to maximize revenue and audiences, expanding aesthetic methods, and facilitating the creative dialogue internationally. IFP and FIND do their part, as do festival institutes but we need something that can consider the bigger problems than that of just US “Indie” filmmakers…

    They are called film festivals. There are many.

    27. Where’s that list on best practices for preventing your film from being pirated? Shouldn’t all producers know this? I know I don’t and I can’t name another producer who does.

    Piracy is a bullshit fallacy. The percentage of pirated revenue – especially derived from independent film – is miniscule. In fact, piracy where independent film is concerned is an excellent indicator of success and means for free publicity. If someone actually wants to ‘pirate’ an independent film and make it available for download, it means the publicity machine is humming nicely. And once it’s out there for the lowest common denominator to download, anyone who does is by default an added layer of promotion and publicity for the film.

    28. The Industry has no respect for producers. Granted, this might sound a tad self-serving, but producers’ overhead, fees, credits, and support are under attack from all fronts. Yet, it is the producers who identify and develop the material and talent, package it, structure the finance, identify the audience, and unite all the industry’s disparate elements. All the producers I speak with wonder how they are to survive and remain in the business.

    A tad self serving? Here’s the first time you’ve placed yourself in the group you’re actually speaking to: producers and financiers. But your readership is largely filmmakers. Yet you appear to have no problem foisting every one of your producer duties onto their shoulders. WTF Ted?

    29. Let’s face it: we are not good at providing filmmakers with long term career planning. Whether it’s financial planning, secondary professions, or just ongoing learning — we don’t really get it, and that sets artists up as future prey. As an industry, and as a class, creative people get stuck in a rut quite easily, and are the hardest dogs to teach new tricks.

    Who is “we” exactly?

    30. With our world and industry changing daily, shouldn’t we have come up with a place where we learn the new technology or at least hear of it? One that is welcoming even for the luddites. The tech sites speak their own vernacular which is a tad intimidating for the uninitiated.

    Independent filmmakers do, in fact, figure that out. Why? Because the film itself is what concerns them most, not ROI.

    31. Where’s the embrace of the short-term release? With digital delivery here, can’t we get in and get out, only to return again and offer it all over again? The week-long booking of one film per theater limits content to that which appeals to the mass market. Niche audiences are being underserved, and money is thus being left on the table and some highly appealing menus not even being considered.

    What are the solutions you’ve been working on in that area?

    32. Film Festivals need to evolve a hell of a lot faster. Festivals need to ask what their value-add is to both the filmmaker and the audience. One or two could ask that of the industry overall too. Now that we recognize that festivals are not a market, and that filmmakers have to do a tremendous amount of work ahead of time in order for them to be a media launch, the question remains what are festivals and who do they serve? The everything-to-everybody style of curating films no longer works. The run-of-the-mill panels have become dull and boring. The costs associated for filmmakers attending are rarely worth the benefits they receive. Film Festivals need to be rebuilt. There are a lot of good ideas out there on how to do it, but not enough have been put into practice.

    You’re sure right about the panels. Why do you continue to do them? Are the ones your on different from the norm? If so, how? Are you answering any of these questions on those panels or just continuously asking them? How are you making your panels memorable and meaningful?

    33. The past ten years of digital film are going to vanish. We do little to preserve not just the works, but also the process and documents behind them. Digital is not a stable medium. We have a migration and storage issue in terms of keeping access up to date. Those films that currently exist in digital format only, won’t stand the test of time. Film remains a better format for archival purposes. We need to take action soon if we are not going to see our recent culture get out of reach.

    Actually, there’s not much ‘culture’ in the Dependent and Co-dependent world. Outside of docs, it’s all about the revenue. I wonder how that happened.

    34. We don’t encourage advocacy around the issues that affect us. How many film industry professionals could rattle off the top ten government policies that affect their trade? Why don’t our various support organizations, unions, guilds, and leaders list issues and actions at the top of their website? Are we all so afraid or so unaware?

    There’s only one issue right now of any real significance: Net Neutrality. I’ll be writing a lot about it very soon.

    35. Okay, it’s a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face, but it seems to me that film industry folk spend less time going to the movies (and I mean seeing films in the theaters) than the average bear. Going to the movies should be viewed as a political act. Support the culture you want with your dollars.


    You’ve got them spending all their time (and money) collecting (“owning” in your words) one million twitter followers. When do they have time to see a movie?

    36. Most of the bootlegging that I encounter comes from within the industry itself. I recently heard of a manager who asked the studio execs and his Facebook friends to send in the bootlegs of his Sundance prize winning client’s film — and he got over 70 back; they all unfortunately were an early cut of the film too. I admit I get a lot of free DVDs from agents & managers, and I admit I make dubs for my directors so they can see actors — but I have started to donate to crowdfunding campaigns to try to balance it out. We have to come up with a uniform practice and commitment to avoid the Industry supported bootlegging.

    Waste of time to worry about the Hollywood or Dependent/Co-dependent industry. As you’ve said, most don’t go to the movies anyway so how much are you losing?

    37. So few of us have determined what we love, not just in film, but also in the world in general. The more we have defined our tastes, the more we strive to bring them into existence. The more we know what we want, the greater our defenses are against that in which we do not want to participate. Where are the filmmakers who can list the things they think can lead us to make better films? If more filmmakers, distributors, and executives conversed more publicly in both the art and the business, the bar for all of us would be lifted higher.

    Converse publicly? Ted, I’ve been trying for weeks to get you to have an actual dialogue rather than simply make pronouncements and ask questions. (You want more lists??!!)

    38. We love to read, talk, and engage more about the business than we do about the art. Some of this comes perhaps because we have more forums for the business than the aesthetics, but it is much harder to get a conversation going about creative issues than it is about financial. I’m just saying…

    It’s only hard for you Ted. (Of these 38 points, just this one focuses on creativity.)
  • Doghouse: Wow. Very impressed with your take on this!

    James Lantz: I have respect for producers who are first and foremost concerned with the film itself. Do you really respect - and want to work with - a producer who won't let the cameras roll until you - you, not him - have ammassed X number of Twitter followers and Facebook friends? My comments to the rest of the list follow below. Including #28.

    Zak Forsman:

    1. I’ve never started my day thinking “Today I’m going to seek out a film about a young pregnant girl in a downward spiral”. People don’t buy films. They buy the promise of an emotional and often intellectual experience (and sometimes even a spiritual one). By expanding the notion of “the experience” you expand the appeal of the motion picture and all that surrounds it, carving a path for an audience to discover the work they didn’t know they wanted to see.

    Zak - The poiint is that the independent film community thrived at a certain point in time because it had something that other people wanted: a vehicle for discovery, for thoughtful discussion and introspection, for incitement and excitement. The experience *was* the movie. It's only since revenue and ROI and Oscar qualification and making a living at it came into the foreground that everything fell apart. My point is that independent film has not existed for a couple of decades now and I'm determined to try and wrest back that very valuable label from the Dependent and Co-dependent world.

    2. If you really believe the film artist should IDEALLY turn their back on the mechanisms that provide the opportunity for a thriving filmmaking career, I’m at a loss for words. Is that what you’re saying? I have a personal investment in doing what I love and making a good living of it. If that means embracing and nurturing my investors’ needs, so be it. If that means taking advantage of state tax incentives to lower the investors’ risk, so be it. If that means casting actors with box office appeal, well many of those actors are “names” because they’re the best in the world and that’s who I want to work with, so…. SO BE IT!! :)

    As I've written above, there's zero expectation of a "thriving filmmaking career" within the independent film community. You're talking about Dependent/Co-dependent. As do Ted and folks like Jon Reiss. And that's OK. Nothing wrong with it. But don't assign the independent film label to your revenue-centric business model for compromise and prevarication. What you and the fellas are wringing your hands over is something so far removed from independent film. First rule of independent film: don't give up your day job.

    3. Still, it takes money to make those pictures. At Sabi Pictures we’ve mentored and put up the dough to foster work by Indian, Asian and Black artists. I don’t see how your response (that producers like Ted are crushing diversity in service to the bottom line) is congruent to his assertion that more could be done to elevate the diversity within our productions. Sounds like a politician ignoring the question and hitting the talking points. In this case, the talking point is to make a character attack.

    Nope, not a character attack. Although I will say that I also responded on this blog to Ted's year-ago list and I'm still waiting for and looking forward to his own participation in the conversation. I think it's irresponsible to the community he's writing at to light the room on fire and never look back. It's awesome that you and others feel so strongly about these issues but Ted makes it appear that he doesn't. almost always questions without answers and never any dialogue. Where was Ted a year a go and where is he in this discussion now? that's not character assassination, that's an invitation to join his own party.

    4. The producer I’ve had the pleasure of working with is not just “the money guy”. That’s dismissive and insulting. The producer I’ve had the honor of working with sets the tone for the production, fosters collaboration between all the artists contributing to the picture and most of all offers intelligent and creative input. This resistance to money and investors as a corrupting influence is why the cliche of, as you referenced, “the starving artist” exists in the first place. I’m an artist. God damn right. “And as God is my witness, I’ll never be hungry again!” PS: Invoking Bush and Cheney here?? Fuck that.

    You're not reading all the words in my comment. I didn't say 'the producer' was just the money guy. I said Ted appears to just be a money guy. That's very different.

    5. I think the assertion that our independent film community expects our films to be ANYTHING is a fallacy. This is one of those things so many people rant about. But is it really a problem? Who out there is proclaiming indies be more like studio pictures? I’m not seeing that. Compelling work transcends this noise and motivates an audience to seek it out. Maybe I’m ignorant to this point but it strikes me as a bit of a straw man.

    It's not a straw man. It's the vital, central point of the discussion. The reason there's a crisis (and it's not new, it's 20 years old) is that the 'industry' puts the cart before the horse, or ROI before film itself. Once that became the norm, the independent film community began to diminish in size and passion and today, there's virtually nothing left of that community. The community you're speaking of is the Dependent and Co-dependent community. It's a community that's actually interested in the top ten grossing films every week. It's a community that actually follows Ashton Kutcher on Twitter. It's a community that believes it's their right to be able to make a thriving living making so-called independent films.

    6. No man is an island. “We” are a community. “I” will not survive on my own. And semantics does not move this discussion forward. Movies are manufactured. Movies are things. Movies are products. Movies are experiences. Movies are memories. Movies are insights. Movies are catalysts. Movies at their best are transcendent and deeply personal. Movies are many many things, but semantics… are not useful. This artform is too expensive an endeavor to dismiss the business that allows us to thrive as creative people.

    It's all about semantics here. If you really think of the movies you care about and care to make as 'manufactured' or as 'products', then you have to go to school and read books like John Pierson's "Spike, Mike, Slackers & Dykes" and watch a bunch of movies from the French New Wave and every Fassbinder.

    7. I and a few other groups in LA put on live, cinematic events to nurture our community and to give fans of independent cinema somewhere to gather. Cinema Speakeasy, Film Courage Interactive and my own, CINEFIST, have banded together in Los Angeles to serve a very real need. CS asks the audience to participate in feedback on films still in post. FCI kicks with an indie-themed quiz show, screens a film and closes with a community discussion. At CINEFIST, we run trailers and have the audience vote via text message for the film that will screen at the next event. And this Friday, filmmakers Gary King and Gregory Bayne will open the night with a conversation about their recent successes with Kickstarter. If you are confusing what Ted is calling for with the studio mentality of the event picture, understand that wanting to explore creative options outside the film itself does not diminish the sanctity of the artform. It invigorates it and spawns greater participation and dialogue.

    I think you're offering wonderful programs! Maybe I misunderstood Ted here. But none of this should impose itself on the creative process.

    8. It’s not impossible to have both. It’s not impossible to make meaningful art AND nurture the sources of funding that support it. Why draw a line in the sand rather than find ways to bring it all together. Fear of compromise? Compromise = Life = Art.

    You're right. It's not impossible. I think it's a great idea for the kind of filmmaking you're talking about. It's simply not independent film and it's only fair for you and Ted and Jon to return it to its rightful place so that the independent film community can regenerate. For more on this, please check out my blog. It's more complex than I think can be reasonably argued here.

    9. This is not helpful, Mark. You talk about browbeating?

    Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree about this one.

    10. To take the analogy of the fallen tree, if I screen my beautifully rendered and artistically crafted art film to an empty theater, does it even exist? Having a direct connection with my audience has proved to be an amazing asset, and has certainly facilitated our ability to sell DVDs, tickets, posters but equally is has allowed us to engage them in conversation, filling that creative wellspring inside us. Nothing wrong with knowing who and where your audience is. In fact, it helps to know who is touched by what we’re doing.

    You're making my point. You shouldn't be driven by screening your film in bricks and mortar anymore. Exactly. It's likely to be empty and you may even have paid the exhibitor $10 grand or more for the privilege. That's Dependent/Co-dependent thinking. today we have the internet to use for our distribution and for reaching out directly to our audience. I agree 100%.

    11. I’m not so sure you’re really interested in meaningful discussion. There seems to be an agenda at play.

    There *is* an agenda. Give back the label. But an agenda doesn't mean there can't be meaningful discussion. That's true only if you refuse to participate. Ted?

    12. If marketing is too dirty a word for you, consider that carving a path for audiences to discover our films is at its best when it is a creative endeavor that organically extends the narrative of the motion picture. You don’t have to call it marketing, let alone product placement (???). But ignoring the need to provide avenues of discovery works against the artist’s needs.

    Marketing is not only not a dirty word, it's what I've worked at very passionately throughout my entire career. But I'm (generally) not a filmmaker. What Ted is writing about here is product placement as far as I can tell. If not, it would be great if he'd clarify so that you and I don't have to feel around in the dark.
  • Jon Raymond,

    You know, Jim Jarmusch is the perfect example of a film artist who actively nurtured on-going relationships with his investors (for example, japanese conglomerate JVC, shocking!). And there are others. He touches on it in this article.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/1999/nov/15/guardianinterviewsatbfisouthbank2

    Jarmusch was able to return to JVC for financing on four consecutive pictures, and as far as we know, this never affected the content of his films in any significant way. And I don't want to speak for Ted but I don't get the impression he is advocating we all cast Michael Madsen and two dozen AK47s in our films to please our investors (that's my stock AFM joke).

    But my question is why did Jarmusch, one of our greatest American voices, have to go to Japan, Germany, France, etc for financing? Wouldn't it be something to have a more consistent investor base here, supporting American art films?
  • Neil
    Well it would seem that this argument is a universal one then...

    The fact is that if you want someone to put their money into something then you have to appeal to THEM and if you want people to give a damn about what you have to say THEY have to be interested... do you see where I'm going here?

    If your an "artist" who cares nothing about money then you probably don't cause you've got your head so far up your own ass that you can't see the sun let alone the truth...

    We are all in this because we want something from it so why expect anything else from those financing YOUR little endeavor?

    We cannot make a film in isolation and therefore we always have to compromise to get it made, discuss the best outcome, no one has the right to dictate... NO ONE!

    I also hate this concept that producers are not artists or "real" film makers "just money men" to that I say F*** YOU!!

    Producers are the ones who put the show on the road, keep it on track and have to get out and push when the "artist" forgot to put enough petrol in (which the producer paid for) and then they take it back to the hire company and have to pay for the moron spilling soda and mulching crisps into the back seat while they were driving!

    If you want to have no one else interfere with your "art" then go spend your own money to make it and then when it's done you can masturbate over your own genius cause you'll be the only one who cares!!

    Films are art but they are also a business because they cost money to make and we want people to see them... even paintings are sold, music, sculpture so why the hell do you have a problem with film being sold too?

    The main difference is that it costs a hell of a lot more money, time and man power to make a film than it does to paint a picture or carve a rock!!

    Therefore money MATTERS - cause not everyone likes eating beans every night!

    It makes me wonder sometimes if this business will ever survive when people are too busy arguing over the essence of what it is rather than concentrating on how to make it work.

    So thanks for the post Ted, it was very interesting and Mark - go to your room and let the adults speak for a while would you!
  • Hi Ted, re: #20, there are other places where film, music and tech meet, they're just not on the national radar as of now. I just finished working as Educational Director of the Connecticut Film Festival in Danbury, Conn., and we had some awesome events. Arin Crumley was our film keynote speaker, talking about a new model of filmmaking including crowd-funding and self-distribution, and the Electronic Frontier Foundation's Richard Esguerra was our interactive keynote speaker. We also had a wonderful actor named Gary Ploski, who's also the Assistant Director of Academic Computing at Sarah Lawrence College, come in and give seminars on Web 2.0 marketing, and building an audience for your work.

    We're not South by Southwest yet. But we're working on it. :)
  • Mark is right on! Filmmakers are not business experts. End of story. What most people continue to miss is the fact that film is the business of selling art. Therefore you have to have the art before you can sell it. What about this is so fucking hard to understand?

    You have to look at the film business and its rate of success before this hits home. Traditionally Hollywood has a very poor batting average. Just go to a numbers website and look at the number of films made, their costs, and then compare that to how many actually turn a profit. Less than 50%. Is this an industry you can make money in? Odds are, hell no.

    Very few movies produced make any money. So why the fuck are we looking at Hollywood distribution models for a split second? And yeah, Ted's rant is fucking Hollywood. I can smell it a mile away. It don't fucking work! Pardon my deliberately poor English.

    My point is much better detailed by Mark's comments, and I don't speak for him. But to make a film you have to have artistic talent. This bullshit about marketing and distribution is a total crock of shit. You write and make a film that you think people will love to see. Yeah, you have the audience in mind as a artist. But that's the end of it. Beyond that, let the MBAs and marketing experts handle it (or not).

    Did Jim Jarmusch worry about marketing? Fuck no! He was too caught up with trying to make good fucking films. How about Lucas? Coppola? Kubrick? Name one great that got all caught up in marketing and I'll eat my shorts (and I'm talking about them in their formative years when they wrote or directed their yet unknown great scripts).

    This is total corporate marketing bull fucking shit. If you aren't doing actual filmmaking as a filmmaker then you aren't a filmmaker. Duh. You're a fucking pawn of Wall Street. Go get a series 7 license and make some money. You want financial security, join the military.

    Filmmaking is not the place to be for people who want to make money. Ain't gonna happen Holmes. The sooner you realize that fact of life the sooner you'll realize who you really are. And if this is all a big dilemma for you, you're no filmmaker.

    But if you really are a true artist, you might have a shot at making some money. But you'll have to suffer like hell first. Bend over.
  • Well, Ted, you've stirred up the nest here. Good!

    Mr. Lipsky, I'd like to know why you consider producers separate from filmmakers? I consider myself to be a filmmaker whose talents and passion lie in nurturing great scripts and surrounding directors with terrific teams so that they (all) can conceive, shoot and edit a compelling movie. I also enjoy ruminating on who might respond to the vision and themes driving this movie-to-be, figuring out how we might reach those people with our movie, AND I don't find it completely anathema to seek out and ask strangers for money to make the shoot happen. If I weren't this type of filmmaker, how many other filmmakers might not ever get past a beautiful story on paper?

    And, Zak, rock on with your articulate self!
  • Hi Howard,

    I think you're misunderstanding me a bit. I'm not saying commerce should drive the content of the film. In fact, I didn't even invoke the idea of commercial appeal. I'm saying that it's absurd to not nurture your sources of financing to protect one's ability to return to that funding for each picture. It's a fantasy to think one can go on making art without managing where the means to do so will come from. Forgive me for my optimism but I make what most would consider niche-orientated art house films. And I nurture a healthy relationship with sources of financing so I can continue making them.

    I'm mean look, this is just my humble opinion and it's exactly the trajectory we're on at Sabi. I'm learning. Every day.
  • Howard Meola
    Sorry for the typos! Will try again:

    “8. It’s not impossible to have both. It’s not impossible to make meaningful art AND nurture the sources of funding that support it. Why draw a line in the sand rather than find ways to bring it all together. Fear of compromise? Compromise = Life = Art.”

    I’ve been hearing this line for 20 years. Everyone in the independent film business with a new project in hand, real or just imagined, claims to have discovered or invented the ideal synthesis of art and commerce.

    In my experience, this line is an absolute and unfailing predictor, whether it’s a finished movie or just a script: quality=zero. No art and no commerce. And how could it be otherwise? Even if “successful” in its attempt, the project was conceived to satisfy a financing model, not an actual audience.

    Will we never learn?
  • Howard Meola
    Zak writes:

    "8. It’s not impossible to have both. It’s not impossible to make meaningful art AND nurture the sources of funding that support it. Why draw a line in the sand rather than find ways to bring it all together. Fear of compromise? Compromise = Life = Art."

    I've been hearing this line for 20 years. Everyone in the independent film business with a new project in hand, real or just imagined, claims to discovered or invented the ideal synthesis of art and commerce.

    In my experience, this line is an absolute and unfailing predictor quality, whether it's a finished movie or just a script: zero. No art and no commerce. And why would be otherwise? Even if "successful" in its attempt, the project was conceived to satisfy a financing model, not an actual audience.

    Will we never learn?
  • David Brand
    The railroads failed because they thought they were in the train business when really they were in the transportation business. You make movies, but what industry are you really in?
  • Thoughts on Mark Lipsky's replies:

    1. I've never started my day thinking "Today I'm going to seek out a film about a young pregnant girl in a downward spiral". People don't buy films. They buy the promise of an emotional and often intellectual experience (and sometimes even a spiritual one). By expanding the notion of "the experience" you expand the appeal of the motion picture and all that surrounds it, carving a path for an audience to discover the work they didn't know they wanted to see.

    2. If you really believe the film artist should IDEALLY turn their back on the mechanisms that provide the opportunity for a thriving filmmaking career, I'm at a loss for words. Is that what you're saying? I have a personal investment in doing what I love and making a good living of it. If that means embracing and nurturing my investors' needs, so be it. If that means taking advantage of state tax incentives to lower the investors' risk, so be it. If that means casting actors with box office appeal, well many of those actors are "names" because they're the best in the world and that's who I want to work with, so.... SO BE IT!! :)

    3. Still, it takes money to make those pictures. At Sabi Pictures we've mentored and put up the dough to foster work by Indian, Asian and Black artists. I don't see how your response (that producers like Ted are crushing diversity in service to the bottom line) is congruent to his assertion that more could be done to elevate the diversity within our productions. Sounds like a politician ignoring the question and hitting the talking points. In this case, the talking point is to make a character attack.

    4. The producer I've had the pleasure of working with is not just "the money guy". That's dismissive and insulting. The producer I've had the honor of working with sets the tone for the production, fosters collaboration between all the artists contributing to the picture and most of all offers intelligent and creative input. This resistance to money and investors as a corrupting influence is why the cliche of, as you referenced, "the starving artist" exists in the first place. I'm an artist. God damn right. "And as God is my witness, I'll never be hungry again!" PS: Invoking Bush and Cheney here?? Fuck that.

    5. I think the assertion that our independent film community expects our films to be ANYTHING is a fallacy. This is one of those things so many people rant about. But is it really a problem? Who out there is proclaiming indies be more like studio pictures? I'm not seeing that. Compelling work transcends this noise and motivates an audience to seek it out. Maybe I'm ignorant to this point but it strikes me as a bit of a straw man.

    6. No man is an island. "We" are a community. "I" will not survive on my own. And semantics does not move this discussion forward. Movies are manufactured. Movies are things. Movies are products. Movies are experiences. Movies are memories. Movies are insights. Movies are catalysts. Movies at their best are transcendent and deeply personal. Movies are many many things, but semantics... are not useful. This artform is too expensive an endeavor to dismiss the business that allows us to thrive as creative people.

    7. I and a few other groups in LA put on live, cinematic events to nurture our community and to give fans of independent cinema somewhere to gather. Cinema Speakeasy, Film Courage Interactive and my own, CINEFIST, have banded together in Los Angeles to serve a very real need. CS asks the audience to participate in feedback on films still in post. FCI kicks with an indie-themed quiz show, screens a film and closes with a community discussion. At CINEFIST, we run trailers and have the audience vote via text message for the film that will screen at the next event. And this Friday, filmmakers Gary King and Gregory Bayne will open the night with a conversation about their recent successes with Kickstarter. If you are confusing what Ted is calling for with the studio mentality of the event picture, understand that wanting to explore creative options outside the film itself does not diminish the sanctity of the artform. It invigorates it and spawns greater participation and dialogue.

    8. It's not impossible to have both. It's not impossible to make meaningful art AND nurture the sources of funding that support it. Why draw a line in the sand rather than find ways to bring it all together. Fear of compromise? Compromise = Life = Art.

    9. This is not helpful, Mark. You talk about browbeating?

    10. To take the analogy of the fallen tree, if I screen my beautifully rendered and artistically crafted art film to an empty theater, does it even exist? Having a direct connection with my audience has proved to be an amazing asset, and has certainly facilitated our ability to sell DVDs, tickets, posters but equally is has allowed us to engage them in conversation, filling that creative wellspring inside us. Nothing wrong with knowing who and where your audience is. In fact, it helps to know who is touched by what we're doing.

    11. I'm not so sure you're really interested in meaningful discussion. There seems to be an agenda at play.

    12. If marketing is too dirty a word for you, consider that carving a path for audiences to discover our films is at its best when it is a creative endeavor that organically extends the narrative of the motion picture. You don't have to call it marketing, let alone product placement (???). But ignoring the need to provide avenues of discovery works against the artist's needs.
  • Hey Ted, a thoughtful and provocative list. Much to think about... My immediate takeaway on number 28 "The Industry has no respect for producers" -- Mr. Lipsky is certainly proving this true.
  • WB
    Where, if anywhere, do you get your financing from, Mark? Having an investor participate in multiple films doesn't necessarily have to mean that one has sold out, does it? Perhaps that person/entity simply finds you have a well-executed vision that people want to see and that's appealing to them. There are some unhelpful generalities being tossed around here.

    Do you care how many people see your films? If so, how have you gotten your work out?
  • Jim B
    Here, here Mark Lipsky!
  • OMG! (First 12 responses)

    1. We cannot logically justify any ticket price whatsoever for a non-event film. There are too many better options at too low a price. Simply getting out of the house or watching something somewhere because that is the only place it is currently available does not justify a ticket price enough. We still think of movies as things people will buy. We have to change our thinking about movies to something that enhances other experiences, and it is that which has monetary value. Film’s power as a community organizing tool extends far beyond its power to sell popcorn (and the whole exhibition industry is based on that old popcorn idea).

    Nonsense. You are buying into the Hollywood mentality that has served to destroy the independent film community to begin with. *You* might think of movies as things people buy because that’s your own ultra-commercial attitude toward an art form. Back when filmmakers thought about money last rather than first, the ‘thing’ was called an "art film".

    2. The Industry has never made any attempt to build a sustainable investor class. Every other industry has such a go-to funding sector, developed around a focus on the investors’ concerns and standardized structures. In the film biz, each deal is different and generally stands alone, as opposed to leading to something more. The history of Hollywood is partially defined by the belief that another sucker is born every minute. Who really benefits by the limited options for funding currently available other than those funders and those who fee those deals? We could build something that works far more efficiently and offers far more opportunity.

    There you go again. The independent film community is not and never has been an industry. Listen to yourself Ted. “Industry. Biz. Deal. Standardized Structures.” All of these things diminish and limit creativity.

    3. The film business remains the virtually exclusive domain of the privileged. Although great strides have been made to diversify the industry, the numbers don’t lie. The film industry is ruled by white men from middle class or better socioeconomic backgrounds. It is an expensive art form and a competitive field — but it doesn’t need to a closed door one. Let’s face it: people hire folks who remind them of themselves. These days everyone needs to intern and the proposition of working for free is too expensive for most. Living in NYC or LA is not affordable for most people starting out. We get more of the same and little progress without greater diversity. And although I essentially mentioned this last year (#36), the continued poor economy limits diversity even more now.

    Great strides *had* been made to diversify, but then producers whose focus was increasingly on the bottom line served to crush that diversity. The film “business” may be the exclusive domain of the privileged, but independent film is not and never was. It was the opposite. What’s missing is not a sustainable investor class but a renewed sense of film as something that transcends business. Something that requires love and nurturing more than it does financing seminars.

    4. There is no structure or mechanism to increase liquidity of film investments, either through clear exit strategies, or secondary capital markets. The dirty secret of film investment is that it is a long recoupment cycle with little planning for an exit strategy. Without a way to get out, fewer people choose to get in. Who really wants to lock up an investment for four years? Not investors, only patrons…

    Jesus Ted. I get that you’re a producer. You’re the money guy. But aren’t you also supposed to be the guy protecting the filmmaker and her vision from the suits. It sure seems that you’re directing these comments at artists rather than potential investors. Yet everything you’re saying here is about ROI. By directing this at the starving artist rather than investment bankers you’re not helping. You’re raising the threat level to RED when what’s needed is reflection and intelligent thought. It worked for Bush and Chaney but I don’t think it’s going to work here.

    5. Independent Filmmakers (and their Industry advisors) build business plans based on models and notions selected from before September 15, 2008 when Lehman Brothers collapsed and everything changed. It is not the same business as it was then and we shouldn’t treat it that way. Expectations have changed considerably, probably completely. Buyers and audiences’ behaviors are different (those that still remain that is). Products are valued at different levels. We live in a new world. Our strategies must change with it.

    Your time horizon is so short-sighted. Before September 2008? The crisis in independent film began in the 1980s, you know, the go-go 80s. The expectations that have changed are that independent films are supposed to think, act and perform like studio films.

    6. The film business remains a single product industry. The product may be available on many different platforms, but it is still the same thing. For such a capital-intensive enterprise to sell only one thing is a squandering of time and money. Films can be a platform to launch many different products and enterprises, some of which can also enhance the experience and build the community.

    You started this list out by complaining that “we” (I really wish you’d speak for yourself) think of films as things rather than something that enhances other experiences. Now you call them products and platforms. Which is it? Are films Things to you? Products? Platforms?

    7. We have done very little thinking or discussing about how to make events out of our movies. The list seems to have stopped at 3D. There’s only been one “Rocky Horror Picture Show” and the first one is very very old. Music flourishes because the live component is generally quite different from the recorded one, and the film biz could benefit from a greater differentiation of what utilizes different platforms.

    “We” don’t talk about movies as events, Ted, because we’re not a Hollywood studio.

    8. We ignore film’s most unique attribute. As demonstrated by how little of people’s online time is spent watching content (30%), we know that people want connectivity & community more than anything else. There used to be film societies, just like reviewers once placed films in cultural context — we need to recreate a community aspect to film going. If you wonder why people don’t go to the movies more, it is not as much about the content, as it is about the lack of community. Without that, why not just stay home to watch? Film’s strongest attribute is its ability to work as a community organizing tool. Film forces us to feel, to think, to engage — let’s not ignore that.

    You almost had me agreeing with you Ted. Then you blew it with the whole community organizing tool. Independent films are neither Things, Products, Platforms nor Tools. The community you’re speaking of has been decimated by the kind of films that get made when producers are more concerned with a sustainable investor class than the class of the films they make.

    9. Independent film financing is still based around an antiquated foreign sales model despite the fact that all acquisition markets are collapsing and fee levels shrink market to market. This old model is centered around stars’ perceived value — an attribute that has been less reliable than ever before. There has got to be a better way than the foreign sales estimate model, but no one talks about it, or even admits to needing one. The participants that get most hurt by this are the investors who take the advice of the “experts” that this is the way it’s done. It used to be done this way, but we have to move on before we burn to the ground.

    No doubt about it. You are the investor’s best friend and their most ardent supporter and protector. Why do you put “experts” in quotes? Is that to separate yourself from “us”? You are one of the most vocal and visible “experts” on the scene Ted. Your concern for the investor is touching and I realize that their care and feeding will allow you to make more Things, Products, Platforms and Tools. But what “we” really need is a producer who spends more time taking care of business vs. browbeating the “experts” and making lists of things for independent filmmakers to do to make the producer’s job easier and less demanding.

    10. Filmmakers don’t own their audiences yet (and few even attempt to). What will happen when agents start to cut deals for their clients who have 1 million engaged fans, people who will pre-order their content, promote it passionately, and deliver more of their friends? There is a shift in the balance of power about to happen, and those that have prepared for it, amassed their followings, will be able to change the conversation significantly.

    The absurdity of that statement is astounding. You’re the producer Ted. If you want to own an audience on behalf of your director, please do. You’ll have to hire several fulltime co-producers to make it happen and it’s going to be a perpetual, time consuming task. Your director, on the other hand, will make the movie. If that’s OK with.

    11. We’ve failed to develop fetish objects to demonstrate one’s love of cinema. The only merchandise we sell is “fan-boy” toys. We need to come up with items that demonstrate their owner’s sense of style and taste. Beyond the books of Tashen, what is there? We can do better. Such products manufacture desire and enhance identification with the art form. We need to streamline the process of the transformation of leisure time into both intellectual and social capital (i.e movie going and its byproducts). How do we identify, reward, and encourage those that appreciate our work?

    I don’t know, Ted. What *do* you do? Tell us. You’ve produced 3 or 4 movies in the past couple of years. What items have *you* come up with? What transformations have *you* made? Why only ask the questions? Share your deeds, not just your thoughts.

    12. Creators, Distributors, and Marketers have accepted a dividing line between art and commerce, between content and marketing. By not engaging the filmmakers in how to use marketing tools within their narrative and how to bring narrative techniques to marketing, we diminish the discovery and promotional potential of each film. We limit the scope of our art by restricting it to the plane of the 90 minute product. Movies should find us early, lead us to new worlds, bridge us to subsequent experiences, connect us to new passions and loves, help us embrace a more expansive definition of cinema, life, and self.

    So here, finally, you fully reveal your disdain for creativity, discovery and art. “how to use marketing tools within their narrative.” I believe that’s called product placement Ted. Once again, that’s Hollywood. And it’s also the producer’s job, not the filmmaker’s job. In other words, that’s your job Ted. It’s also the kind of unhelpful statement that makes folks think that you’re involved in independent filmmaking vs. Dependent and Co-dependent filmmaking. Independent films don’t use marketing tools within their narratives. They don’t rely on an investor class and they don’t make product.
  • Ted - you know how to stir it up. I feel that we should take these problems and find solutions. Hence my comment is to propose 10 Solutions that Filmmakers Can engage in to work against these failings:

    1. Consider marketing and distribution of your films as part of the entire filmmaking process. If you do this it will be easier and more organic.

    2. Hire a distribution and marketing crew - just as you would a production crew. Hire a Producer of Marketing and Distribution or PMD to run this crew. As a producer/line producer run production crew.

    3. If you are interested in film, business, marketing, social media - train to become a PMD so that you can be hired by filmmakers. This is a growth field - if you want a new career.

    4. Budget for and raise money for distribution and marketing at the initial raise. That way you can promise your investors a release of the film. This way there will be some assured path to monetization and all share the risk in the costs of that monetization.

    5. Put the money for marketing and distribution in escrow - you know what I mean.

    6. Consider the audience for your film, the specific audinece(s) that exist for your film. Reach out to them as early as possible. They will help you.

    7. Think of how and what that audience consumes. Make products that they want related to your film. Eg Shepard Fairey designed posters printed on linen paper signed by the director of the film Bomb It - :)

    8. Think of interesting Live Events that you can create that appeal to your audience and are relevent to your film. Steinway brought pianos and pianists to the screenings of Ben Nile's "Note by Note"

    9. Think of interesting ways to reach out to audiences that might engage with the content of your film, but don't want to watch a feature film (yes transmedia). Check out "The Way We Get By" and their Returning Home community site. Check out Bomb It's Babelgum webisode site.

    10. Remember that you are creating a film or media project for an audience. Creation is one part of the whole, connecting with the audience is the other part to that whole.

    Jon
  • Jon Reiss's 10 SOLUTIONS list is great and inspiring. Makes me want to work harder.
  • Jeepers. This is incredibly insightful. I'll have to think about it for a whil. And then make a real comment... But til then, excellent.
  • Jim B
    Ted, you're ALL over the map. Some of these items simply contradict each other (points 1 & 17, just for starters). Speaking of all these online tools, etc, maybe you need to step back and get some perspective and clarity. There may be some important points in here, but they get buried in too much babble.

    Also, Mike S. Ryan's recently published piece did in fact talk about film as art, and he got some heat from you for not being forward-thinking enough. But the fact is, his recently produced work is leaps and bounds above what you're doing in terms of artistic quality.

    And you've recently complained about social network privacy, and then you go and say filmmakers must be on the things, amassing a certain number of followers or projects be damned.
  • doghouse
    There's far too much here to comment on at anything like reasonable or polite length, but the sense of despair and perplexity your piece induces may derive from the confusion over who, exactly, is "we"? What art-form sustains this level of mercantile self-examination, and manages to maintain the value which (imputedly) distinguish it from other consumer products?

    On that note, when you ask,

    "We don’t insist that our artists are also entrepreneurs",

    one might counter, aren't there *already* far too many entrepreneurs in independent film? Thanks to the way the business is organized in the U.S., those who actually succeed in getting films made are, virtually by definition, unlikely to have the qualities of insight, originality and acquired obsessive discipline of mind which might make their films worth seeing. If this sounds preposterously self-serving, or at least potentially self-serving for the failures among us, look at the catalog of American independent film, and try explaining its peculiar wanting qualities. Failed art does not look this way. This stuff has the look of failed journalism.

    As you point out, participants in this business are far more concerned by, and interested in, the business, than the art. And small wonder: the business is far easier to understand and practice than the art. The business is something many people can do, or at least try to do. The art is something almost no one can do, and few can recognize when it's right in front of them, in unfamiliar form.

    Which brings us to this:

    "Yet, it is the producers who identify and develop the material and talent...."

    And woe that this should be the case. What other art form sustains this level of pre-curatorial selection? We're arguing here not over what gets distributed, but what actually comes into existence. There is no recognized professional training for this endeavor, and no one (that I know of) currently on the scene has a enviable record of judgment. On the contrary, whatever state we're in today, represents the collective failure of producers and investors, and they are not failing with glory. We are not talking here about the marvelously achieved literary novel which sells 3500 copies. We're talking, for most part, about projects which aspired unsuccessfully to the market. They fail at that, but they typically fail all else, as well. These works are not martyrs to High Art.

    To the degree that any form of art today probably needs a subsidy to survive, whether that subsidy comes in the form of a government grant, a teaching slot in an MFA program or a career as a waitress, nobody can be blamed for the economic fate of independent film - masterworks would also likely flop. Without subsidies, Shakespeare and Beethoven are unperformable today.

    But that does not explain the morass of independent film. Instead of worrying over how to sell a mediocre product, why not direct the energy into inquiring into its nature, and what's gone wrong with its substance and content and creators? Then we still fail at selling it, but fail at least with dignity.

    But those 38 points won't make the films any better.
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